Neil Hudson MP: speeches

Speeches

• 28 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [Lords] · Hansard source

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  I totally agree with my right hon. Friend. It is right that if water companies do the wrong thing, the money levied from them is ploughed back into improving the water and not back into Treasury coffers. The water restoration fund, since being introduced by the previous Conservative Government, provided £11 million for communities to repair their local waterways and restore them to the quality they should be.

• 22 Jan 2025 · Listed Places of Worship Scheme · Hansard source

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  I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this important debate. The listed places of worship grant scheme is vital for our communities. The previous Conservative Government extended it in 2023, and since 2022 five grants have been awarded in my constituency. I have been contacted by a number of places of worship that are deeply concerned about the future of the scheme. Does my hon. Friend agree that, for the sake of worship, outreach, youth work, helping vulnerable people, and community hubs, it is right for the Government to extend the scheme?

• 17 Jan 2025 · Fireworks Bill · Hansard source

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  I congratulate the hon. Lady on bringing forward this important piece of legislation. She talks about how the uncontrolled use of fireworks is very distressing, and causes distress and injury to people. As a veterinary surgeon, I have seen at first hand the impact on animals both large and small: cowering pets, pets that go missing, and farm animal livestock or horses that bolt and cause themselves horrific injuries. Does she agree that we need more regulation and control, so that people can protect themselves and animals?

• 17 Jan 2025 · Green Belt: Basildon and Billericay · Hansard source

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  I congratulate my right hon. Friend and fellow Essex MP on securing this important debate. His constituency, like mine, has precious green belt that is so important to the environment, biodiversity and our physical and mental health. I acknowledge the need for housing, but does he share my concerns about this Labour Government’s central top-down targets being imposed on communities against their wishes and, equally, their plans to reclassify some of the green belt as grey belt, thereby putting our precious green belt under immense pressure and danger?

• 16 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source

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  It is a great pleasure to again serve under your chairship today, Dr Huq. May I first, on behalf of the Opposition and, I hope, colleagues from across the Committee, give a vote of thanks to everyone involved in this process? I have a list here, and please shout out if I miss anyone out. First, I thank the Chairs—Dr Huq and Mr Vickers—for guiding us through the process. I thank all the Bill Committee staff—the Clerks and officials—for their assiduous, thorough work, which keeps us on message as Members of Parliament scrutinising this legislation. We thank them for that. Dr Huq, thank you—I will use the word “you” for you. I thank the DEFRA officials for all their hard work on this and for engaging with the Opposition as well. I very much appreciate the Minister allowing the officials to do that. I thank the Doorkeepers and Hansard . I do not think I have missed anyone in the room except the public. This gives me the chance to thank the members of the public who have come in and watched our proceedings, as well as people who have watched online from afar. There are also, as the Minister said, the stakeholders: the environmental groups, the volunteers and the experts who have fed into this Bill and the water debate that we are having and who are helping legislators across the House to improve and refine legislation. We thank the public very much as well. We have had a very interesting few days. It has shown us that there is a lot of cross-party consensus on what we are trying to do to improve our water quality. There is some disagreement about how best we do that, but this Committee has shown the House that, actually, there is a lot of agreement about the scale of the problem and the fact that we need to address it. I respectfully say that I am disappointed with the comments from the third-party spokesperson, the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale, about the Bill Committee stage being a charade. I do not think that line-by-line scrutiny of Bills is a charade. Yes, there is a process as to how Committees are populated, but that is democracy. I would have thought that that particular party, given its title, would respect election results. That is how democracy works. We have seen that they have had some disagreement among themselves about some of their votes as well, but I will leave that point there. We have had some interesting discussions, and it would be remiss of me not to talk about teeth. We have had dental analogies aplenty: we are wanting to give more teeth to the various regulators. Finally, I think I did detect—we will have to check Hansard —the Minister using the word “Ofwet”. When this matter goes to the commission, “Ofwet” might be an interesting term for a new body that might be set up, but I will leave that with the Minister.

• 16 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I am grateful to the hon. Member for giving way, and I have a lot of respect for the new clauses that he has tabled to put pressure on water companies to provide more information at critical stages. The Opposition have tabled amendments requiring water companies to publish data on their websites to enable citizen science, so I respect what he is saying. I guess some of the issue is in the detail of the wording of the new clause. I am sure we are all in agreement about water companies providing information, but proposed new section 37(1A) says that we want them to be “full and accurate” and “honest”. I guess the devil is in the detail. How will that be judged? If this new clause were to come into play, how will people judge that? Is an “honest assessment” whether something is not false, or whether something is complete or incomplete? There is an element of challenge that could be put in. I understand the sentiment, but the devil is in the detail of the wording as to how this could actually work.

• 15 Jan 2025 · Foot and Mouth Disease · Hansard source

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  Thank you for granting this urgent question, Mr Speaker. I declare a strong personal and professional interest. As a veterinary surgeon I supervised some of the animal culls in the 2001 outbreak, witnessing sights I never want to see again. The confirmation on 10 January of foot and mouth disease in Germany, with subsequent slaughter and movement restrictions, is sending shockwaves around Europe and the UK. We have requested this urgent question as no statement was provided to the House on Monday or Tuesday. The shadow DEFRA Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for Louth and Horncastle (Victoria Atkins), is unable to be with us today as she is at the LAMMA show in Birmingham speaking to agricultural manufacturers and farmers. In 2001, the foot and mouth outbreak resulted in more than 6 million animals being culled and cost £12.8 billion in today’s prices. It devastated the farming community, and farmers want reassurance that action is been taken to protect our borders, their livestock and their livelihoods. The mental health impacts of foot and mouth cannot be overstated. Can the Minister reassure us that the announced movement restrictions are fully in place for animals and products coming to the UK from the affected area? Will the Government think about extending the ban to personal imports of meat and milk products unless accompanied by veterinary documentation? Can the Minister update us on the work tracing possible movements of products from Germany? What advice is there about movements of people and vehicles from the area in terms of fomite transmission of the virus? And, heaven forbid, if foot and mouth ever enters the United Kingdom, what is the situation regarding vaccine supply and potential deployment? Finally, I pay tribute to the chief vets and the veterinary and animal officers and scientists and officials at the Animal and Plant Health Agency, who do so much to keep our country biosecure. This foot and mouth disease wake-up call is yet more evidence that the Government must now commit to fully fund the redevelopment of the APHA HQ in Weybridge. I urge the Government from the bottom of my heart to fully fund that redevelopment, to make sure that the burning pyres of slaughtered animals, as well as the economic and mental health devastation of foot and mouth disease, remain resolutely confined to the history books.

• 15 Jan 2025 · Foot and Mouth Disease · Hansard source

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  (Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will make a statement on the Government’s emergency contingency response to the recent confirmation of foot and mouth disease in Germany?

• 15 Jan 2025 · Draft Free-Range Egg Marketing Standards (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2024 · Hansard source

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  It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mrs Harris. I thank the Minister for bringing the draft regulations to the Committee. I am pleased to say that we, His Majesty’s most loyal Opposition, are supportive of the statutory instrument and offer no objections. The initial consultation conducted by the previous Conservative Government in January 2024 demonstrated strong support for the proposals, leading to this statutory instrument. Current marketing standards allow hens to be housed for 16 weeks before their eggs are required to be re-labelled as barn eggs. Recent avian influenza outbreaks have once again necessitated the introduction of mandatory housing measures for free-range poultry in certain areas, which can sometimes exceed the 16-week limit. Consequently, producers adhering to these essential measures have been penalised through the loss of their free-range status. In the previous Parliament I served on the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, and we looked into this issue extremely closely and fed our work in to the Government. I am pleased that the previous Government responded positively, and that the new Government have picked up the baton. The changes in the statutory instrument will remove the 16-week derogation period, thereby protecting producers who are doing the right thing by responsibly housing their birds under the chief veterinary officer’s instructions during the imposition of avian influenza controls. I should declare an interest: I am a veterinary surgeon so I have a strong personal and professional interest in this subject. The changes are made in the knowledge that once the restrictions are lifted, the birds will be back out and free-range. Furthermore, they will ensure that English free-range producers maintain parity with the EU, where the 16-week time limit was removed from egg marketing standards legislation in 2023, as the Minister articulated. This will create a level playing field for our producers and reduce the likelihood of English free-range eggs being substituted with imported eggs. Although we support the statutory instrument, I do have some questions for the Minister. Before I ask them, I put on the record my thoughts and sympathy for farmers and bird keepers who have been affected by avian influenza outbreaks. The virus is still with us and there are still outbreaks. I also pay tribute to everyone at the Animal and Plant Health Agency. Vets, officials and scientists are working hard on the situation, as they are working on many different disease situations. Avian influenza is with us, bluetongue is still bubbling away, and we now have the real concern of foot and mouth disease having been confirmed in our near neighbour Germany. As a veterinary surgeon, I am all too aware of the devastating impacts that animal disease outbreaks can have. Avian influenza outbreaks obviously affect not only reared domestic birds but wild birds, but there are also significant human impacts, not least on the mental health of those in the frontline. Given the ongoing avian influenza situation, will the Minister outline the additional measures the Government are taking on avian influenza to preserve our nation’s biosecurity? What is the current policy and status in terms of vaccine development and deployment? In addition, will the Minister clarify what steps are being taken to co-ordinate the changes with Welsh authorities? We know they are introducing changes, but we must make sure that we have a consistent approach across the UK. We strongly support these crucial measures and I am grateful that the regulations have been brought to the Committee today.

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I thank the Minister for her comments. I am afraid that I am not fully reassured, and we would like to see provision in the Bill for any fines imposed on water companies to have a concomitant effect—a direct effect—on customer bills. This well-intended measure has been tabled to create a link between the two, so although I hear the Minister’s comments, we would still like to press new clause 3 to a vote. Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I thank the Minister for the constructive tone with which she has engaged in this whole debate, but I think we are going round in circles. We are trying to hold the water companies to account, and the Government are saying, “It is okay, Ofwat can do that,” but we have heard contributions saying that Ofwat is not using its powers and we need to give it more powers. All we are doing, with this new clause, is putting in place the principle that the Secretary of State has the capability to oversee that. If the Secretary of State and the Government felt that Ofwat was doing what the legislation intended, they would not need to activate the new clause’s provisions. If, however, they did not feel that Ofwat was doing that, the new clause would give them that particular power. We are again talking about—I know the Government Back Benchers are going to wince—teeth. In this case, regarding Ofwat’s and the Environment Agency’s capabilities, we are saying to the democratically elected Government of the day that there is an extra tooth to hold over Ofwat, and that if Ofwat is not doing its job then the Government can, potentially, step in. I take on board the comments about the commission but, to echo some of the comments of the hon. Member for Witney about being impatient for change, if this issue is going to the commission, and the can is being kicked down the track, that is disappointing. With this new clause, we are trying, constructively, to give the Government and the Secretary of State of the day the capability to act if they feel that the processes set up under the previous Administration and the new Administration are not working well. I urge the Minister to think again on this matter, and we will press the clause to a vote. Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I thank the Minister for her constructive response, but the Opposition still feel that this is an important new clause in relation to the impact on water pollution, so we would like to proceed again to a formal vote.

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time. New clause 6 is a fair and reasonable request to strengthen the Bill. Quite simply, it would do what it says on the tin by requiring the Government to report on the impact that they expect the Bill to have on water pollution and on the actual and verifiable effects that the Bill, when it becomes an Act, will have on our water quality. It is completely agreed that accountability for addressing the quality of our water system should be at the heart of how we tackle water pollution and related issues. That should be true of every actor involved: not just the water companies, but the Government whose regulation they are expected to abide by. We cannot rightly say on the one hand that water companies should be expected to meet criteria to restore public trust, while suggesting on the other hand that the Government should not likewise work to be accountable and to uphold public trust on the issue. Furthermore, the new clause feeds into the basic fact that ensuring that our water systems are being improved is not a one-time event that can be magically resolved with a single piece of legislation every now and then. It must be a consistent focus for the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and for all the agencies under whose remit the issue falls. The work of agencies such as the Environment Agency is vital. I pay tribute to its hard work, not least when flooding hits, as we have discussed. We should not underestimate those on the frontline who do so much to keep people safe, to make sure that the environment is protected and to ensure that the quality of people’s water is safe and suitable. To improve our water systems, however, the buck must stop not with the EA, but higher up: with DEFRA and the Government. The new clause would help to provide that accountability. As in our earlier discussions regarding the online publication of implementation reports, if the measures set out in the Government’s approach do not meet their targets, for legitimate reasons, the Government would have a chance to lay out exactly why not and to give a justification for their findings on the Act’s impact. Our new clause would provide a natural mechanism to ensure that long-term planning and reviews of the Act are taking place and that the Government are looking at water pollution and the actions that the water industry has taken or needs to take to further improve the situation. We should not shy away from the fact that the new clause would build on the previous Government’s efforts to look at that point. Our plan for water set out a 25-year plan to ensure that our water companies were investing in our water system for the long term, not just while the issue was in the headlines. Again, that is why our new clause matters: because it would ensure the continued focus of Governments of all parties on the protection of our waters. That matters all the time, not just when it becomes a political or media issue. We must also consider the evolving factors that affect the water industry and its ability to reduce water pollution. The flooding that we have seen in the past weeks has highlighted once again that our country is facing more regular extreme flooding events. In simple terms, more flooding means more excess groundwater and surface water that can enter the network, which creates more of a risk that sewerage overflows will be required to maintain our water systems. With such events becoming more unpredictable in their timing and yet more commonplace because of extreme weather events and the effects of climate change, looking at the evolution of issues such as this will be crucial to ensuring that any measures to improve overflows and water quality are successful in the long term. We need to make decisions now that have an impact in the future, because in the long term we all want water quality to improve and to be protected for future generations. To achieve that, we need long-term and consistent attention and reflection on the policies being enacted and their effects. The new clause would help to facilitate that. Once again, transparency is not a hindrance; it helps everybody involved in managing the quality of our water system. Trust can be maintained only if everyone tries to do what is right and the Government, of whichever political party, are no exception. We need to be trying to do the right thing. Given that, His Majesty’s Opposition believe the new clause to be a highly reasonable and fair amendment to the Bill, and we hope that the Minister might support it.

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time. New clause 4 amends the Water Industry Act 1991 to insert new rules regarding the limits to the amount of money that can be borrowed by a water company, which the Secretary of State for the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs would be able to enact by means of statutory instrument. Although we have discussed statutory instruments in Committee, the Opposition hope that the Government will recognise that this proposed statutory instrument power needs to be made. New clause 4 ensures that water companies are not excessively borrowing money, as that is ultimately bad for bill payers. At the heart of our concern about financial resilience is the borrowing in the industry and the over-leveraging because of that borrowing. It is clear that there is a direct link between financial resilience, problems connected to borrowing and the very survivability of the water firms. That should be of huge concern to all of us. Consumers are concerned that the provision of their water is at risk, and we as legislators must work out how to deal with the issues, including the financial implications, relating to the risk of nationalising the water companies that have no other way of providing services. That can reverberate back to the consumers again, who may face increased costs because of the financial support that the Government have to provide to keep water companies afloat. In other words, tackling the choices that water companies may have made, and will make in the future, including borrowing choices, is an issue that we are required to correct for the very future of our water industry. I reiterate my profound respect for the way that both the Minister and Baroness Hayman have conducted themselves in this debate. I note that Baroness Hayman expressed concern in the other place that putting a fixed percentage limit on borrowing could be a risk to investment at a crucial time for financial resilience and investment in the water industry. That is why my Conservative colleague, Lord Roborough, revised his amendment on that in the other place to give the Secretary of State the power to set limits by means of a statutory instrument. I pay tribute to my colleague and friend Lord Roborough for working so hard to raise the issue of financial resilience in the other place through this amendment. We are not saying that a hard limit has to be set on borrowing levels, but merely giving the Secretary of State the option to do so if they feel it necessary to protect consumers from the negative effects of the water industry. I come back to the point I made in previous sittings: giving the powers to the Secretary of State, a democratically elected Minister in His Majesty’s Government, through statutory instrument, improves democracy and accountability for the water companies. I do not think the Labour Government need to shy away from this constructive amendment, which gives the Secretary of State the ability to hold the water companies to account, as we all want to do. If the Minister does not see the need for the amendment —I am not pre-empting her, but I imagine that is how her response will go—can she clarify how much borrowing the Government consider acceptable for a water company, and what they will do to reduce the impact on the consumer of excessive borrowing and spending? The new clause also limits the amount of dividends that can be paid out to shareholders if the water company has exceeded the borrowing limit. Should a limit be set, it would therefore make water companies fairer in their practices to bill payers, as when a company borrows it will have less of an impact on consumer bills. While in government, the Conservatives gave Ofwat the powers to link performance to payouts to shareholders and water company management. New clause 4 further aims to protect consumers from companies that are failing to prioritise their customers. Considering those points, the Opposition believe that the Government could move a bit on this, and enact democratic accountability with the statutory instrument. We hope that they will look on new clause 4 favourably.

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  As we have gone through the Bill, there has been a lot of cross-party consensus on trying to get measures in place. I respect the efforts of the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale and the third party in trying to improve the situation, not least in such matters as nature-based solutions. From the official Opposition’s perspective, however, the hon. Member’s new clause 7 is perhaps an overly eager response. Throwing out Ofwat completely at this juncture when we want it to do its regulatory job would create more problems than he wants, whatever the intention of the new clause. I know that the Liberal Democrats have argued that steps should be taken to set up a new regulator in some way. New clause 7 does not really introduce a specific requirement or measures to enable a transition from Ofwat to the purported new regulator. If we were to proceed with the new clause, we would simply be left in limbo and in the lurch with regard to regulation of the industry. It is not that we believe that the situation is perfect: we have debated the powers of the Environment Agency and Ofwat, and we have agreed that things are not perfect with the water industry and regulators. We have all heard at first hand about issues that we are not happy with, such as executives moving into higher-paid roles within water regulators, of which we heard evidence in the EFRA Committee in the last Parliament. The hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale generously shouted out the people who work in Ofwat and the Environment Agency, but although he will not push new clause 7 to a vote, he still talks about abolishing Ofwat. In doing that, we would be left with a vacuum while a new regulator was set up—something we can ill afford when we all agree that there is so much work to be done. A new regulator could not be established overnight; it could take months or even years while structures were being established, the personnel needed to do its everyday work were appointed and the like. Let us be honest that making such a move would not come without financial cost. Even if that money could be raised through Government resources—ultimately, that means taxpayers’ money—we would be using it to establish a completely new infrastructure for the water regulator, rather than trying to enhance and give more power to the regulator we already have. In addition, we have to remember that its role as a regulator affects consumer bills, too. While none of us wants to see water bills rise for any of our constituents, particularly in difficult economic times, bills would have only been higher if a regulator had not been there at all. If we are left with a vacuum until a replacement mechanism is put in place, and if that takes a lot of time, do we really want to run the risk of unregulated companies raising prices even further in the meantime? We are in agreement that the status quo has not been good enough when it comes to water companies, but progress has been made and continues to be made in that seismic task. Water companies are starting to face the financial penalties for their failures to both people and our precious environment. For example, back in November, Wessex Water was ordered to pay £500,000 for the loss of thousands of fish because of a sewage pumping failure. That very same month, Thames Water was fined over £18 million for its failure to obey rules introduced on the spending of dividends. Those incidents are not good news stories, and we should never say that they are, but they are signs that the mechanism is working. Ofwat is holding the companies to account and trying to act—it is trying to use the teeth that are there. There are early signs that giving the regulator those teeth—which we have heard a lot about in this Committee —means that there are clear consequences for the water companies that break the rules that have been implemented. That is not the end of the story, but it is the start of the journey, as we try to hold those water companies to account. As I have also mentioned, the pathway for inspections into water company activity is increasing. It is the whole approach—from incident, to investigation, to penalty—that needs to be examined and reviewed in order to drive change, and that is what has been done and what this legislation is trying to take forward. Although things are not perfect, we need to allow the existing legislation, as well as this new legislation, to take effect so that the regulator can get on and do its job. We should not put things in jeopardy by completely abolishing things. I note that the Liberal Democrats have tabled this new clause, and they are not pushing it to a vote, but I want to put on record the Opposition’s reservations about what they are suggesting.

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  The Opposition note that clause 14 attempts to make amendments to previous legislation so that a court may not exercise powers that it currently has with regard to an application for winding up an undertaker without providing advance notice of the petition to the Secretary of State, Welsh Ministers—as appropriate—and Ofwat, and without a period of 14 days having elapsed, as outlined in subsection (2). We also note that the clause likewise grants a further power for the Secretary of State, Welsh Ministers and Ofwat to be entitled to be heard at a winding-up petition’s hearing and any other hearing that relates to part 4 of the Insolvency Act 1986. Again, we do not wish to raise any formal objections to this particular clause, but we ask for a couple of clarifications from the Minister, if she will indulge us. First, we would like to hear the Minister articulate what benefits this particular clause brings to the Bill. I was not fully clear from her introductory remarks about the actual benefits. Secondly, does she believe that this change to winding up a water company or any other relevant undertaker will provide a fairer winding-up process? While we are focusing on water companies and the processes for them, we all want to ensure that the clause provides, again, protection for the consumers, who, as we agree across the Committee, have for too long faced unsatisfactory levels of service from the water industry and the practices of some water companies, so could the Minister please explain whether consumers were considered when this clause was drafted? I and others have outlined in Committee that the performance of water companies in financial resilience, as well as many other matters, has not been satisfactory and has been very upsetting for the British public. Therefore could the Minister please respond and assure the Committee that there can be no unforeseen repercussions for consumers from this clause? That is a recurrent theme as we go through line-by-line scrutiny of the Bill: are there any unintended consequences whereby the taxpayer and the end point consumer will be unfairly penalised by the legislative changes? With that in mind, we have no formal objections to this clause but again we seek clarification that the end point consumer will not inadvertently suffer detriment from this legislation.

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  Clause 10 amends the Environment Act 1995 to allow the Environment Agency and Natural Resources Wales the power to make charging schemes to recover costs from water companies. While the Opposition wish to raise no formal objections to the clause, we would be grateful for clarification on a couple of points from the Minister. First, can the Minister explain whether the changes in this clause to the Environment Act 1995 that allow costs to be recovered from water companies could impact consumers in any way? Although it is already possible, we must be mindful that consumers may face extra costs, which I will discuss later regarding issues with the special administration orders that the Government have laid out in clauses 12 and 13, to be debated shortly. Consumers have already been informed by Ofwat that they should expect to see bills rise—the complete opposite of what the Government had said they intended to deliver. Therefore, do the Government feel confident that they can avoid contributing to the problem of a rising trajectory of bills, at a time when trust in the industry, as we have been debating in Committee, remains low due to financial mismanagement from some water companies and, too often, consumers receive poor quality from these services? A further question, which I would be grateful if the Minister could clarify, is what modelling have the Government done to ensure that all the costs recovered will always be to the benefit of the taxpayer and the consumer? While we all share the desire that water companies that do the wrong thing must pay to put it right, we must ensure that, when we punish those water companies, we do not hurt the end consumer, who very much deserves to be protected. I would be grateful for the Minister’s thoughts on this, but again, we have no formal, explicit objections to the clause.

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  Good. We are all for talking about and raising the issue of chalk streams, but it is clear that we wanted to include that in our amendment. Our amendment will therefore be a chance to give chalk streams the attention they need from this Government. The previous Government were ready to deliver that and hand the baton over to the new Government, so that they could follow through on the explicit requirement that chalk streams be considered. The amendment is a chance for the Government to reconsider their stance on the water restoration fund. I would be grateful for clarity from the Minister about what they are planning to do. If they are serious about improving our waterways and if the money from penalised water companies is allowed to go back into the local area to improve those waterways, we could agree about that. If the Government do not face up to this, that might be a negation of the various promises they made to the electorate when in opposition and send a message that their words are merely soundbites. I hope that the Minister will consider the points I have made and support this amendment to restore the water restoration fund—for the sake of not only our waters, but the democratic and local accountability on which they rely. We will seek to push new clause 2 to a vote.

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  Clause 11 extends the purposes for which water quality inspectors may be appointed to include functions relating to national security directions under section 208 of the Water Industry Act 1991, and it provides flexibility for the charging of fees for regulatory work. This is a straightforward clause to which we raise no formal objection, but once again we would be grateful for a couple of clarification points from the Minister. How will the Government increase the Drinking Water Inspectorate’s ability to monitor and audit water supplies? Does the Minister feel that the clause will improve the inspectorate’s functions? Will the Minister please explain how the Government intend to support the powers of the Drinking Water Inspectorate, beyond this clause? She praised the inspectorate, and I echo that praise, but how do the Government intend to support its capabilities? Once again, we wish to raise no formal objections to the clause. I would be grateful for clarity on the points I have highlighted.

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  Can I just say that the previous Government went and looked for the problem, and found the scale of it? We all agree that it is a huge problem that needs to be addressed; we are not downplaying the scale of it. We collected data and were brave enough to say, “There is a problem.” Labour Members threw a lot of things at us during the passage of the landmark Environment Act 2021. They have made misleading comments about Conservative Members of Parliament, but we were the party that grasped the nettle and said, “There is a problem, and we need to look at it.” A lot of the amendments that were tabled to try to scupper the Environment Act were completely uncosted and would have cost taxpayers lots and lots of money. We tried to introduce practical, cost-effective, reasonable measures to address the scale of the problem that we unearthed.

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  The Conservative Government were the first Government to start addressing this issue by actually evaluating the data, monitoring overflows and monitoring outflows. I gently remind the hon. Member that when her party left power, only 7% of storm overflows were measured; when the Conservatives left power, 100% were measured. We were the first party to find that there was a problem. To return to the dental analogy, in the last parliamentary Session we tried to give the regulators more powers—more teeth—to go after the water bosses. We need to firm up how the regulator has been using those powers, so that we can hold the water companies to account. I agree that there is outrage across the House about how water companies have breached their terms of reference and broken the law. We have tried to hold them accountable. The Bill will try to take things further, but I gently say to the Government that we were the party that started collecting the data, which allowed us to realise the scale of the situation and try to introduce measures to sort it. The new clause ensures fairness for customers and ensures that fines on water companies will not impact customers, who are not at fault for the water companies’ mistakes or the bad practices that led to the fines. We believe that customers should not be impacted by fines imposed on water companies. The clause attempts to remedy that. In the name of accountability and trust between the public and Governments—of all colours—that seek to address this issue, subsection (3) states that the reductions to customer bills imposed under the clause will be indicated on the statement of account for each consumer who has received the reduction. We believe that that is important. For too long, a toxic cocktail of water companies’ poor behaviour and rising bills has led too many people to feel that they are getting poor value for money, and that they are not getting the quality water services they deserve for the price they are paying—hard-working people, up and down the country, who work consistently to pay their bills and do the right thing, while the water industry’s negative practices continue. Given the amount of time we have spent talking about this issue, they may also feel that the new Government are not willing to act to protect the consumer in this area. Subsection (3) seeks to break that cycle and send a signal to bill payers that actions to regulate water companies have a real, tangible effect. Showing the reduction in consumer bills directly on the statement of account will provide a real, tangible sign that the poor behaviour has been looked at, people are going after the water companies and consumers will benefit from that. It also serves as compensation for those who have been directly affected and as an example of justice in action—the principle being that those who harm pay a penalty, and those who are harmed receive restitution. I return to my comments about the water restoration fund. Fines being re-circulated into the local area will be good for local accountability.

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  Clause 9 would introduce a new requirement for Ofwat to consider, as part of its regulatory decision making and the exercise of its powers and duties as given by the Water Industry Act 1991, the section 1 duty confirmed the Climate Change Act and section 5 of the Environment Act 2021. We have no formal objections to raise to that basic principle and no amendments that we wish to make to clause 9. Can the Minister provide some clarity on the line that amendment 27 from the Liberal Democrats seeks to remove from the Bill? It states that Ofwat’s duty to have regard to the Secretary of State’s duty to meet environmental targets applies “where the Authority considers that exercise or performance to be relevant to the making of such a contribution.” Will the Minister assure the Committee that she and the Government will work with Ofwat so that it has clear guidance on when these environmental targets would be relevant, so that there are no grey areas in Ofwat’s work as it looks to enforce those targets? Can she assure the Committee that the Government will also work with Ofwat to ensure that with regard to its powers and duties in the spirit of clause 9, consumers are protected should there be any subsequent financial costs to water companies, so that we get both environmental protection and the value for money that the tax-paying consumer deserves? I would be grateful if the Minister provided clarification on some of those questions. However, his Majesty’s loyal Opposition have no formal objections to clause 9.

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  Clause 8 seeks to grant the Secretary of State and Welsh Ministers additional powers to impose conditions or general rules on water industry licences relating to abstraction and impoundment activity. His Majesty’s loyal Opposition do not have any formal objections to the clause, but I would suggest that it reinforces some of my comments on clause 6 about the need to make the Government have the powers they need to regulate as necessary a more consistent principle across the Bill.

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  It is actually part of our amendment.

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  I support Government amendment 5, as it is a privilege amendment in accordance with the procedure for the passage of Bills between the other place and this place. We wish to raise no formal objections to this and we have no opposition to the amendment.