Liz Saville Roberts MP: speeches

Speeches

• 16 Dec 2025 · Criminal Justice System: Wales · Hansard source

  More

  Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lefarydd. People like to think that criminal justice happens to other people, to other families—that anybody who finds themselves in the criminal justice system deserves what they get, and that people get sent to prison to be punished. One of our jobs here is to remind ourselves, the legislators, that what we do has repercussions for real people and for their families, so I would like to open this evening’s Adjournment debate on the criminal justice system in Wales with an account of what happened to one family from Blaenau Ffestiniog: to 22-year-old Gwenno Ephraim, to her mother Karen Ephraim, to her half-sister and brother, and to her extended family. Dr Rob Jones and the Wales Governance Centre of Cardiff University allow us to understand the cracks in our criminal justice system in Wales. Gwenno’s story is what happens when real families fall between the gaps. Gwenno’s mother first contacted my office in January 2022, seeking support after her daughter had attempted to kill herself. Gwenno was discharged from the local district hospital after two days in A&E. I am told that the mental health team were not making home visits—this was, to be fair, during the covid pandemic. A year later, Gwenno pleaded guilty to six charges at Caernarfon magistrates court, which included the assault of a healthcare worker at the Hergest mental health unit in Ysbyty Gwynedd. She was sentenced to 44 weeks in prison. This was her first experience of the criminal justice system. The family, of course, readily acknowledge that her victims deserve justice. Despite promises of a women’s residential centre in Swansea since 2018, Wales has no prison or secure accommodation for women; neither are there any approved premises for women. Gwenno was sent just over 100 miles away to HMP Styal, outside Manchester, where she was held for a period of three months. Three months was not long enough for Gwenno to be able to get a proper diagnosis for her mental illness, but it was long enough to churn her life into chaos. Despite being on suicide watch while in prison, Gwenno was released back into the community, where her refusal to engage was a sufficient reason for accommodation to be withdrawn. She could not stay with her mother, as her behaviour posed a threat to the younger children. This was the beginning of a vortex of bed and breakfast rooms, breaches of licence conditions, pointlessly short returns to HMP Styal, hand washing over terms like “capacity”, when Gwenno’s vulnerability was obvious, and harrowing mental health episodes in train stations, hospitals and north Wales seaside towns. Although health and homelessness support through local authorities are devolved to Wales, criminal justice is not. Welsh women’s experience of the criminal justice system epitomises what Dr Rob Jones and Professor Richard Wyn Jones conceptualised as the “jagged edge” of justice in Wales. Despite not having a female prison, Wales has the third highest incarceration rate for women in western Europe. Like Gwenno, Welsh women are sent to prisons all across England, although predominantly to HMP Styal and HMP Eastwood Park in Gloucestershire. Last year, 78% of those women—more than three quarters—were sentenced to 12 months or less, while nearly a quarter received a month or less. Such short sentences do nothing to rehabilitate female offenders, but they do plenty to derail lives. With a 45% increase in the numbers recalled to custody for breach of licence in Wales in 2024, Gwenno’s revolving door experience is far from unique. It does not improve when we look at the wider picture, either. Wales has had a higher in-country imprisonment rate than England since 2019, with 167 prisoners per 100,000 head of population in 2024—the highest in western Europe. In fact, one in every 648 people from Wales was in prison last year. Of course, it is not just people from Wales; 35% of all prisoners held in Wales last year were from England, with 65% of them held at HMP Berwyn in Wrexham. That is not sustainable—and so says the PCS union at Berwyn. Staff are worried that as prisoners are released early under new Government plans, empty spaces will be filled by prisoners turned away from full prisons closer to home. Of course, it is not a one-way street; around 30% of prisoners from Wales were being held across 109 prisons in England, away from their families, support networks, culture and sometimes their first language, as was exactly the case for Gwenno. That last point is important, considering that a recent study by Rob Jones and Gregory Davies found that Welsh-speaking prisoners have “experienced widespread neglect of their needs and overt interferences with their use of the Welsh language” in prison. Were prisons in Wales answerable to the Senedd, more stringent Welsh language requirements would apply and the language rights of Welsh speakers in prisons would very likely be more robust. As the UK Government deal with a prison crisis that incentivises filling spaces wherever they are available, the differing needs in Wales are all the more important for us to stress. I say this following the news of HMP Parc’s approved expansion, despite serious concerns over safety and access to drugs, and the prison recording the highest number of deaths for a single prison in 2024—the joint highest ever recorded in England and Wales. Surely placing more people in a prison where the number of prisoner-on-prisoner assaults has risen by 15%, alongside a rise in self-harm and assaults on staff, is a recipe for disaster. Also, accounting for women and category A prisoners, who also cannot be accommodated in the Welsh prison estate, is providing Wales with 700 more prison places than we presently have Welsh prisoners really a sensible idea? This could see Wales’s in-country imprisonment rate surpass the average for the whole of Europe. Of course, it is to be anticipated that prisoners are eventually released. In Wales, this is where the “jagged edge” is particularly clear—where the wraparound services to help ex-offenders are, of course, devolved. Gwenno was released on occasion without a fixed address, far from home. The number of people released into homelessness from Welsh prisons rose by 34% in 2024-25, and we do not even know how many Welsh prisoners released as part of the Government’s SDS40 scheme—standard determinate sentence 40—between September 2024 and March 2025 were released into homelessness, because the Ministry of Justice did not provide that data when the Wales Governance Centre requested it. There is a real constitutional question on why data on the impact of UK-level decisions that have a knock-on effect on devolved services on the ground in Wales cannot be released. Communication and data tracking between relevant bodies is the bare minimum expectation. This is, as it stands, not effective governance of criminal justice in Wales. I will turn now to probation. When Gwenno lost her train ticket home from HMP Styal, she missed her probation appointment back home in Wales. Therefore, she was in breach of her licence and was sent straight back to prison. Her experience again shows how the Probation Service has to operate in this “jagged edge”, where prisoners are at risk of being cut off from the support that they need to negotiate the difficult space between prison and rehabilitation. It is no secret that the probation system is overstretched, and that is an accepted reason behind the higher rates of ex-offenders like Gwenno being recalled to prison and behind any risks not being taken when there are breaches in licence conditions. As the co-chair of the justice unions parliamentary group, I have heard directly from probation staff who warn that unless the service receives a significant funding uplift and a marked change in both working conditions and culture, the UK Government’s Sentencing Bill plans simply cannot succeed. A major overhaul is necessary. However, in response to an amendment by Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd calling for the devolution of probation—as recommended by his own commission’s report, by the Independent Commission on the Constitutional Future of Wales, and by the Commission on the UK’s Future, chaired by Gordon Brown—the Government Minister’s response was that the “capacity for change in the Probation Service…is pretty much maxed out”. —[ Official Report, House of Lords, 3 December 2025; Vol. 850, c. 1889.] I am proud to say that that is not the view of many probation staff in Wales. For the Wales Probation Development Group, this juncture provides an opportunity for a 21st-century probation service that is locally managed, commissioned and delivered, with an emphasis on rehabilitation, desistance and the importance of relationships. To make that a reality, we need devolution. If change has to happen anyway, why not undertake real, lasting change that puts in practice what is actually being asked for in Wales and what could make a real difference to people like Gwenno in future? I understand that the UK Government propose a memorandum of understanding to allow for some changes in Wales, but can the Minister tell me specifically what that would achieve in practice, because I understand from the House of Commons Library that a memorandum of understanding based on the Manchester model has “no legal force”? In the case of the Manchester agreement, either side would be free to withdraw from the MOU “at any time”, and it is not possible to raise a formal dispute or take legal action “if either side believes the terms of the MOU have not been adhered to”. Can she tell me how that will work for Wales, what the Welsh Government could actually do, and what would be in place to ensure that the UK Government keep to their side of any deal? In reality, this is a way for the UK Government to essentially subcontract the meaningful community-based work, while refusing to give up the powers that set the agenda. That works for no one. If it did, why was it not the recommendation made by multiple independent commissions? I beg the Minister to answer that question. That is particularly important considering the way that the abolition of police and crime commissioners is being handled in Wales. The Government say that Wales has a “unique nature of devolved arrangements”, but rather than addressing the fundamental incoherence of those arrangements and devolving criminal justice, the UK Government are instead expecting the Welsh Government to help work things out in Wales. The delayed policing white paper is an opportunity for the UK Government to undertake meaningful reform to improve Welsh policing and the criminal justice system in Wales. To do that effectively, the Government must engage with the repeated recommendations of independent experts. I come to my conclusion. Let us put ourselves in the position of Gwenno’s family. They have seen how offenders and ex-offenders in Wales, and their families, are failed by a resolute lack of joined-up thinking. It is through the full devolution of the criminal justice system that we can start to fix structural problems and address systematic issues in Wales that hinder both effective rehabilitation and the safety and welfare of victims, survivors and their families. This is not a political ask or a tick-box on a constitutional wish list; it is a pragmatic solution with the needs of people—victims and offenders within their communities—at its heart. Gwenno Ephraim had been happy at school until the age of 16. She found the move to college difficult, and of course, after this there was covid—and there was a traumatic event in the family. Her mental health made her vulnerable. After offending, the only place where Gwenno found the safety of routine was in prison; she was in and out eight times between January and July this year. How is it possible for a young woman to be released from suicide watch in prison to chaotic bed-and-breakfast accommodation over and over again? On 7 August, North Wales police put out a missing person appeal for Gwenno. It stated that she was “last seen in…Bangor…on Monday night (28 July)…CCTV footage…appears to show Gwenno walking alone between 10.20 pm and 11.10 pm”, by which time it is understood that she had reached the Menai suspension bridge. She has not been seen since. The emergency services and the Royal National Lifeboat Institution made searches in the days immediately afterwards, but they found nothing. An inquest has not been opened because Gwenno is officially missing—that is her status. Because of that, Karen Ephraim is refused access to her daughter’s medical notes, as she has not got her daughter’s permission to access them. That is all logical, officially, but it makes no sense to a grieving mother looking for answers. Will the Minister please meet Gwenno’s family, Karen Ephraim? It is better if the questions come from her mother than from her Member of Parliament. Let us remember that Gwenno was in the care of the state—in prison, in hospital and on licence. We failed her.

• 16 Dec 2025 · Criminal Justice System: Wales · Hansard source

  More

  I welcome the disaggregated data. It has been quite a battle to get that, but it indicates that this is an area that the new Government are interested in. If a complete dataset shows us that there are certain tendencies from year to year, and that justice is not being served well in Wales, I hope the Government will consider the evidence put before them.

• 16 Dec 2025 · Criminal Justice System: Wales · Hansard source

  More

  On the matter of courts, there has been much debate about the removal of jury trial in certain circumstances, but I am told that in Wales, we do not have those court backlogs, and that this is a problem in England that could be imposed on Wales. Is there not the potential to leave the status quo as it is in Wales? We could then see whether the proposal works by making a comparison between Wales and England. I am told that the courts in Wales are not in the same position as those in England, as regards backlogs, at all.

• 15 Dec 2025 · Violence against Women and Girls Strategy · Hansard source

  More

  I welcome the advance notice of the publication of the strategy on Thursday, after months of delay, and I welcome the Minister’s candour, but this chronic uncertainty has undermined services already struggling with chronic underfunding. Some, such as Chwarae Teg, have already closed due to a perfect storm of financial challenges. Can the Minister commit to long-term funding for organisations such as Welsh Women’s Aid, so that the promise to halve violence against women and girls can be commissioned effectively in the devolved environment of Wales?

• 11 Dec 2025 · US National Security Strategy · Hansard source

  More

  Putin’s press secretary praised President Trump’s new national security strategy as aligned with Russia’s worldview. Meanwhile, a dark vessel was spotted in the Irish sea at around the same time as an EU satellite detected five drones near the flightpath of the plane carrying the Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky, to Dublin last week. Given that the US strategy is now being welcomed by Moscow, will the Minister urgently request an assessment from her colleagues in the Ministry of Defence of the risk posed by Russian hybrid threats?

• 10 Dec 2025 · Engagements · Hansard source

  More

  The Prime Minister just said that he wanted a closer relationship with Europe, but he then referenced the Labour party manifesto. Wales has been hit hardest by Brexit—exports are down by a third. When will he admit that the only solution to the chaos imposed by Brexit is to rejoin the customs union and the single market, or is he too afraid of what his party might say?

• 9 Dec 2025 · Railways Bill · Hansard source

  More

  The Secretary of State has touched on the role of the Office of Rail and Road. In 2018, after the Croydon tram accident, the Light Rail Safety and Standards Board was set up; at the same time, the chief inspector of railways recommended that a similar body be set up for heritage rail, which is run mostly by volunteers. Can we take the opportunity presented by this Bill to look at whether we could set up that body for heritage rail?

• 3 Dec 2025 · 2025 Budget · Hansard source

  More

  We all know why the Chancellor went to Wales on Monday: she was seeking to avoid scrutiny over a self-inflicted controversy, but it does not end there. There has been criticism of the Chancellor’s claim that additional funding for Scotland was given “because Anas Sarwar asked us to.” —[ Official Report , 26 November 2025; Vol. 776, c. 388.] There was no mention of the Welsh First Minister, Eluned Morgan. There is a mechanism for Barnett funding; it is not a gift. Will the Secretary of State commit to honesty about how Wales is funded, rather than insulting our intelligence?

• 3 Dec 2025 · 2025 Budget · Hansard source

  More

  That was desperate. We all know that the Secretary of State has been using figures that we cannot extrapolate from, and cannot use to show what independence will do. I wish she would keep up, because Plaid Cymru is actually talking with Labour in Cardiff about how to improve public services and the NHS. The people of Wales want facts, not spin. A year after the announcement of inheritance tax changes, the UK Government have still failed to release data on the impact on family businesses and farms in Wales. She knows that the cross-party Welsh Affairs Committee has called for the changes to be delayed until a full Wales-specific impact assessment is published. What have the Government got to hide?

• 2 Dec 2025 · Criminal Court Reform · Hansard source

  More

  I rise as the co-chair of the justice unions parliamentary group. Caernarfon justice centre is only 16 years old, but the roof leaks when it rains, and the heating does not work. Let me list some of the root causes for criminal courts processing fewer cases: high workloads, staff shortages and inexperience, poor administration, crumbling buildings. How does the Justice Secretary think that undermining one of the basic tenets of English and Welsh law will be a solution to those problems?

• 1 Dec 2025 · Office for Budget Responsibility Forecasts · Hansard source

  More

  I am very interested to learn that the Chancellor is in Wales today. Amid all the message manipulation, she leaves the Minister to explain exactly why the continued freeze on income tax thresholds will hit Wales badly: an estimated five times more Welsh workers will be pulled into the basic rate compared with in the UK as a whole. I can only presume that the Treasury consulted the Labour Welsh Government. Will he release their response specifically in relation to confidence and a cost of living hit?

• 26 Nov 2025 · Cost of Living · Hansard source

  More

  The Government do indeed need to go further. This morning, the Scottish Government laid the regulations necessary to mitigate the two-child cap, brought in by Labour and carried on by Labour. Scotland is the only part of the UK where child poverty is falling, and it is the only part of Great Britain with a non-Labour Government. Does the Secretary of State recognise the huge role played by the Scottish child payment in tackling poverty head on? Does he agree that Labour in Cardiff Bay and in Westminster should follow the Scottish Government’s lead?

• 26 Nov 2025 · Cost of Living · Hansard source

  More

  2. What discussions he has had with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the potential impact of her policies on the cost of living in Scotland.

• 26 Nov 2025 · Engagements · Hansard source

  More

  Q15. From a previous answer the Prime Minister gave, we can conclude only that he has faith in the hon. Member for Clacton (Nigel Farage) to police his own party on Russian interference, but the leader of Reform has already said that that is beyond his capabilities. Why, then, is the Prime Minister so unwilling to take responsibility and launch a full investigation into foreign interference in our democracies?

• 18 Nov 2025 · UNESCO: 80th Anniversary · Hansard source

  More

  I congratulate the hon. Member on securing the debate. I have the slate landscape of north-west Wales world heritage site in my constituency, and I am glad to be a member of the APPG. With these large industrial sites, we need to discuss how to maintain the designation safely while also finding a working use for them. I think of a large hydroelectric scheme in my constituency, which would be an immense benefit to local people, but we need to balance that with what we want to maintain and make safe for future generations.

• 17 Nov 2025 · Asylum Policy · Hansard source

  More

  Stoking fear and division through the kind of performative cruelty trailed in the media this weekend has consequences. We saw that in Caerphilly last month in that where Reform UK spread information, Ukrainians spoke of intimidation. When the Home Secretary speaks of unity, surely the lesson from Caerphilly is that imitating Reform does not create unity and does not win trust, but that standing firm on values does.

• 17 Nov 2025 · Small Modular Nuclear Reactor Power Station: Wylfa · Hansard source

  More

  I welcome this announcement. Plaid Cymru supports new nuclear at Wylfa unequivocally, as well as at Trawsfynydd. Last week’s statement announced AI growth zones, with two sites in north-west Wales—one at Holyhead and the other at Trawsfynydd. Will the Minister provide further information on the infrastructure required in Trawsfynydd, especially in relation to data centres and energy supply?

• 11 Nov 2025 · Welsh Language in Prisons · Hansard source

  More

  Diolch yn fawr. The Welsh Language Act 1993 places a duty on public bodies to treat the English and Welsh languages as equal in Wales. The Minister mentioned the HMPPS Welsh language scheme, which is a new scheme that commits to publishing an annual report on its progress. I have already contacted the Ministry of Justice about that and about adherence to the Act. However, considering that the previous iteration of the scheme failed in that respect—publishing only a single report, and that only following a complaint under the 1993 Act—what assurances can the Minister give that the new scheme will have any real effect?

• 11 Nov 2025 · Welsh Language in Prisons · Hansard source

  More

  2. What his Department’s policy is on the use of the Welsh language in prisons.

• 5 Nov 2025 · Employment Rights Bill · Hansard source

  More

  I rise as co-chair, alongside Lord Faulkner, of the all-party parliamentary group on heritage rail. I express my thanks to the Government for bringing forward the amendment and recognising that volunteering with heritage railways is an immensely useful experience for young people aged 14 to 16. I am glad that we are now undertaking a 12-month assessment for guidance.

• 3 Nov 2025 · Public Office (Accountability) Bill · Hansard source

  More

  As a sponsor of the private Member’s Bill tabled by the hon. Member for Liverpool West Derby (Ian Byrne), I fully welcome this Bill’s introduction, and I welcome that the protections include criminal offences of misconduct in public life. Can the Prime Minister assure me and others that those new offences will be able to be applied retrospectively?

• 29 Oct 2025 · Economic Growth · Hansard source

  More

  Allow me first to congratulate Lindsay Whittle on his seismic victory in Caerphilly. In doing so, I pay tribute to the late Hefin David, whose service to his community was deeply respected. As Mr Whittle has said: “He will be a hard act to follow. I will never fill his shoes but I promise you I will walk the same path that he did”. The result shows that people in Wales seek real change. In her capacity as Secretary of State at the Wales Office, what is she doing to press the Labour Chancellor to include measures that benefit Wales in the autumn Budget?

• 29 Oct 2025 · Economic Growth · Hansard source

  More

  None the less, I think we all know that the autumn Budget risks falling short of tackling the deep poverty and lack of opportunities that still scar far too many Welsh communities. We need to tax income from wealth fairly, scrap the two-child limit and ensure that families have the support they need to cope with rising costs. The Secretary of State tells me to wait for the Budget. Perhaps she is therefore prepared, for once, to meet with me to discuss Plaid Cymru’s proposals for a fairer, more ambitious UK Budget that actually works for Wales. Will she meet with me?

• 29 Oct 2025 · Sentencing Bill · Hansard source

  More

  I am very grateful to the right hon. Gentleman, who I am sure will join me in supporting my new clauses 27 and 28, and new clause 25 in the name of the hon. Member for Liverpool Riverside (Kim Johnson). My new clauses relate to probation capacity and the devolution of probation services to Wales, but in Committee we had no feedback whatsoever from the Minister at the close of the day. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that those four new clauses, including his own, warrant a response from the Minister?

• 27 Oct 2025 · Prisoner Release Checks · Hansard source

  More

  I put on the record my role as the co-chair of the justice unions parliamentary group. Everyone here will want to make sure that this kind of outrageous error never happens again. The chief inspector of prisons warned today of a “systematic problem” of increased releases in error, citing “very busy people, often quite inexperienced, with huge caseloads”. He also warned that prisons are dependent on west African officers whom we might now lose thanks to the changes to visa thresholds that are expected to cause “an enormously damaging effect” on some prisons. With that in mind—because the Government have control over it—will the Justice Secretary press the Home Office to look again at how changes to the skilled workers visa are directly causing prison staff shortages and worsening prison performance?