Justin Madders MP: speeches

Speeches

• 26 Nov 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

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  Thank you.

• 26 Nov 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q I have just one question, mainly for Jemima, but you are welcome to chip in, Joeli. The Regulatory Policy Committee has suggested that there is no evidence base for third-party harassment. Do you have any thoughts on that criticism? Jemima Olchawski: There is strong evidence that the majority of sexual harassment experienced in the workplace comes from third parties. This is where someone experiences harassment from a client, customer or patient. Some of those who are most vulnerable would include those working in retail and hospitality. It is essential that anyone working in those environments is as safe as they can be and respected in their workplace. We would consider it essential that employers’ responsibility to take reasonable steps to prevent harassment includes third parties, because as a victim, it is not relevant that the person was not a direct co-employee. What matters is the harm experienced. It is absolutely within the bounds of good practice and reasonable steps for employers to address that. Joeli Brearley: Nothing from me. It is not my area.

• 26 Nov 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q No, it is all very useful—thank you. Let me pick up on something you said earlier, Mick, though others can answer as well if they want. You talked about injunctive relief as a potential solution to the threat of fire and rehire. We are consulting at the moment on measures including interim relief as a potential action that unions can take on behalf of their members. Can you say a little bit about why you would prefer injunctive relief, rather than interim relief? Mick Lynch: Interim relief can take time, and I am not convinced that tribunals will have the power and the kudos to achieve it. I am not a lawyer, as you know, Minister, but I want the ability for unions to make an intervention on behalf of workers. It would have to be based on law and something that the company has done wrong, but it seems to me that injunctions are immediate and carry the weight of a higher court. When we get injuncted under the anti-trade union laws, it is at the High Court and it is immediate, and there is no doubt about the effect of that injunction. If you want to defy it, it is on your organisation’s head, whether that is a trade union or a multinational company. If it is not called injunctive relief, I do not mind—I do not mind whatever way the Bill comes out—as long as it has the power of immediacy and enforceability through proper channels. That is what we want to see. We do not just want a slap on the wrist that the company factors in; if you have added another £10,000 to the fine, but they are sacking 2,000 people, they do not really care. What we want is for them to be forced to stop the activity, subject to the full force of the law, not just a minor blip on their spreadsheet. Whether it is called an injunction or interim relief, I do not mind. If the tribunals are beefed up so that they can do that, that is fine, because that can be a good channel as well. I am open to suggestions on that, but I hope we get the power to do it.

• 26 Nov 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q Jane, you have said quite a lot in the past about the link between good employment protections and productivity, and the CBI has also said there is a case to be made for better security at work increasing productivity. Do you agree that the Bill has the potential to deliver on the idea that an increase in protections at work can help to increase productivity for employers? Jane Gratton: Employers know that a happy and engaged workforce is more productive. It is in their interest to make sure that they look after their workforces, and most businesses are good, caring employers. The worry with the legislation is that in trying to address bad behaviour by a tiny minority of businesses—of bad actors—the cumulative impact and cost of all this will have a negative impact on the majority of very good businesses. Again, it comes down to the proportionality. These are huge changes, and one concern is that they have been brought in at such pace—although we are very grateful to the Minister and the Department for the time they have been able to give us in terms of consultation—that there are things written into the Bill that our members do not feel they have had sufficient time to be consulted on, because of the pace of change. I think we need further engagement on some of these key aspects, including the reference period for offering guaranteed hours and extending those things to agency workers. There is a lot of disquiet around how that would work, particularly for companies that offer seasonal work, such as Christmas and holiday periods. How does a 12-week reference period equate to that? It does not seem to work. It would be better to have a 26-week period, for example. There are a lot of things. The other thing that has come up often is a real nervousness around removing all the waiting days for statutory sick pay. Again, employers are really on board with supporting people who have a long period of illness, but some of the feedback from members has been that it is the single day of sickness absenteeism that causes the most disruption and impact. Rather than its being day one, a lot of employers have said, “Could it be from day two? Can we pay from day two, so the Government meets us halfway?” The overwhelming response from businesses has been, “Can Government please minimise the additional cost of these regulations on all businesses, but particularly on small and medium-sized companies?” Matthew Percival: Yes, there is a lot of confidence in the idea that employee engagement helps to boost productivity; that is why businesses make it a priority. I am not sure they believe that much in this Bill is going to increase productivity, though, because they are not convinced that much in this Bill is going to improve employee engagement. To take a couple of practical examples, I already mentioned in the industrial relations space the importance of the recognition process, where there is a great deal of concern that, if you recognise a trade union that does not speak for much more than a tiny proportion of your workforce, and you elevate that voice ahead of the voice of the actual workforce, that is not going to boost employee engagement. Employers are happy to work with trade unions who are the representatives of their workforces, and it is right that they should do that, and it is right that, if there are any employers who will not do that voluntarily, there is a statutory process that can force them and bring them to the table. But in the same way that we have employment law not because every employer has negative intentions, but because there are a small minority who have the potential to abuse their power, it is also appropriate to regulate the actions of trade unions in the industrial relations space. Another quick practical example within the zero-hours contract aspect of this regulation is that crafting the requirement for accessing guaranteed hours as something that employers need to be constantly calculating for all employees whenever they work beyond their fixed hours, and then making offers to people, some of whom would want to receive those offers and some of whom would not, seems to us the most administratively complex and costly way of delivering on the proposal. We think there could be two other constructions worthy of consideration. One of those constructions could be a right to request framework, where there are good tests on when an employer needs to accept a request versus not, just as we have around flexible working currently. Or you could call it a right to have, if you like, but at the moment I have not seen a difference between a right to request that an employer has to accept other than in limited circumstances, and a right to have that you do not have the right to have if an employer meets the same test for limited circumstances. What really matters is not whether you call it a right to request or a right to have, but what the test is for when an employer accepts the request. That would minimise significantly the administrative burden, rather than calculating lots of offers for people who will not want to accept them. A number of individual businesses have told us that, if the Bill is to go with the grain of the good practice that already exists within industry, they will monitor people’s hours where they already have mechanisms to do so, and there will be a trigger for a conversation between the individual and their line manager in the event that their hours regularly exceed the hours guaranteed in their contract. Those who have that policy in place tell us that, most often, that leads to no change in contract. The hours are picked up as extra hours, and the individual does not want to guarantee them in their contract. There will be occasions when the individual does change contract, but those businesses say that the majority of people in that situation do not want to change their contractual arrangements, so we are hoping to minimise the admin burden. Alex Hall- Chen : I just want to emphasise that employers absolutely recognise the link between the two. That is why, in many cases, they are ahead of the legislation. A good example of that is flexible working: 90% of IOD members’ organisations already offer at least one form of flexible working to their employees. The concern is about the scale of the changes and the costs associated with them. We know from the Government’s impact assessment that that may be as high as £5 billion a year, with the cost disproportionately falling on small and medium-sized enterprises. A frequent piece of feedback that we get from members is that they feel that the Government do not understand how difficult it is to run an SME at the moment and just how tight profit margins are. That is primarily where we are coming from. These changes are huge—to an extent, they are unprecedented—and will impact on those already very fine profit margins.

• 26 Nov 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q Good morning, everyone. You have mentioned quite a few surveys, but there are other surveys available that show high levels of support among managers and senior decision makers in businesses, with up to three quarters of managers supporting the measures in the Bill. Matthew, a number of the concerns you raised are the subject of live consultations, so I am sure you will be responding to those. On a more general point, Jane in particular said that a lot of the businesses you represent do a lot of the things in the Bill already. Do you think it is important that we have a level playing field so that good businesses are encouraged to treat their staff properly? Jane Gratton: Yes. There has been a cautious welcome for some of the measures in the Bill—lots of businesses agree with the sentiment that it is about fair pay, security and non-discriminatory workplaces—but the question is around the proportionality of the changes that are being introduced in relation to the problem that the Government think needs to be addressed. From a business point of view, it is about the additional complexity and, in respect of some of the detail of the measures, the restrictions that the Bill will impose. For example, on changing the “one establishment” rule, the feedback from members has been, “For every change, will we have to consult all our employees across all of our businesses, even if they are doing completely different things at different ends of the country, with different levels of skill and job role? It is disruptive for the business and unsettling for every employee.” It is about the detail. In principle we all want these things, but the detail of some of the measures and the impact they are likely to have is causing a lot of concern. Matthew Percival: You are right to say there is a live consultation on a number of measures, and the consultations on a number of things are promised to come but have not started yet. That is why I resisted putting a figure on what it would currently cost, because there is a wide variance in what that could end up being. We are committed to trying to find a landing zone for the Bill that means that the Government can deliver their ambitions, which include the Bill not having a negative impact on the ambitions around growth or the focus today, outside this room, on the “Get Britain Working” agenda and an 80% employment rate. We want to stitch all those things together and find that landing zone. It is a credit to you and to colleagues that the engagement we have had up until now has led to things like some movement on the recognition of the importance of a probation period. There is so much in the Bill and we have only really scratched the surface in terms of what we have been able to get into the detail of so far. We are hoping that through this process, and as the Bill progresses through Parliament, we are able to give the same amount of attention to the rest of the Bill.

• 26 Nov 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q As you are the one giving evidence, we are questioning you today. There will be plenty of time to go into detail. I want to touch on what you said about the process not being a good one. Is it about the level of engagement you are getting with Government officials? What is the issue? You mentioned that it has all been rushed. You will be aware that everything is being phased in over a couple of years. Could you expand on what the difficulty is with the process? David Hale: It is a good question. It partly goes back to the overwhelm. We can talk to only so many small businesses at a time, and we can talk to them about only so many things. We can say, “If the changes to unfair dismissal come in, how will that change your recruitment?” We can have that conversation, or we can say, “If there are changes to zero-hours contracts, will that mean you have to ban swapping shifts in your business, just to cater for your regulatory risks?” We can explore those things, but only one at a time. We have 40 minutes today. We will spend less than a minute talking about each of the measures in the Bill. That overwhelm has a time consequence for good engagement and good exploration. I do not want the officials who have engaged with us about the Bill to feel that that is not appreciated, but I do think there are process problems. This Committee is taking evidence from different groups in turn to explore the Bill over a two-day period, I think, but that is not the approach that the Department has taken, and that is a problem. At the Department level, each measure would have to be explored in turn, with different groups coming together. At the moment, the way in which the process has worked has created more division than is necessary. It has set up two sides—worker representatives and business representatives—and set them in opposition, without providing a voice for those at the biggest potential risk, which is the people who are out of work. That is on the broad scale, but there are a lot of practical things, too: can we have regular meetings, organised at the same time each week, rather than them coming in and out of diaries, and that sort of thing? That is a practical issue, but those issues are important.

• 26 Nov 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  I refer to my declaration in Register of Members’ Financial Interests as a trade union member.

• 26 Nov 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  Mr Stringer, I do not think that I actually mentioned my trade union memberships. For the record, the individual unions are Unite and GMB.

• 26 Nov 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q Good morning, everyone. To pick up on the points you just raised, I reassure you that there will be continued dialogue before implementation. I have a more general question about what you see as the current weaknesses in the employment rights sphere. What do we need to do to give people more protection and security at work? Do you think the Bill addresses that? Ben Willmott: The introduction of the fair work agency—a single enforcement body—is a positive step forward, but there needs to be further thought about how to improve the labour market enforcement system. We need a long-term strategy to improve labour market enforcement that includes not just a fair work agency but the Equality and Human Rights Commission and the Health and Safety Executive, not in a single enforcement body but as part of the strategy. We need measures to improve the efficiency of the employment tribunal system, which we know is swamped, and we need to increase the overall number of labour market inspectors—by international standards the UK is under-resourced on the number of inspectors. As I have said before, we also need to significantly increase ACAS’s budget so that it can help small firms to comply. If labour market enforcement is about getting the carrot and stick balance right, that is why it is so crucial that ACAS can play that role in helping to raise employment standards. Businesses that are not bad employers—those that are poorly resourced, or might be knowledge-poor or time-poor, particularly micro and small firms—tend to fall foul of legislation because of those issues, not because of any malicious intent. Cathryn Moses-Stone: I will start with the latter part of the question. We have a lot of data showing the impact of good management practice on both productivity and an improved workplace culture. Much of the Bill falls into that camp. For example, we know that one third of employees have cited negative work culture as a driver for leaving their organisation. That is obviously driven by ineffective management. We know that when managers in organisations have mutual trust and respect with their direct reports, they find that productivity rises. Poorly managed teams have lower motivation, satisfaction and retention. We believe a lot of the elements of the Bill are tied up in driving much of that in a positive way. The things we are worried about, which echo what I have said before and what Ben has said, come down to implementation—that is, what the fair work agency looks like, how it behaves, how it supports, and how it gives space for managers to upskill. We know that 40% of our managers have expressed some concern about the detail of some of the policy, such as the right to disconnect. For example, what defines business-critical comms, versus just maintaining team comms? We know that with high-quality management training—helping people to understand how to have difficult conversations, prioritise and have emotional intelligence—people can navigate those things much more effectively in the workplace. Our worry is about what the implementation will look like and about how managers and leaders will be supported in respect of the fair work agency. Carly Cannings: I think the Bill is about raising minimum standards. As I said previously, a lot of employers are doing a lot of good things. Let us be realistic about the impact of the Bill: it is about raising minimum standards. Cathryn alluded to the bigger picture of creating happy, thriving workplace cultures, and it goes far further than that. This is not a call for further legislation; for me, legislation is about raising minimum standards. There is so much more outside and beyond legislation that makes a real difference to whether somebody has a happy, thriving workplace culture, and the benefits of that culture. Thank you, Cathryn. You have done a very good job of outlining the things that I see in reality and when working with my clients—the factors that play a part in creating a workplace culture. Like I said, for me the Bill is about raising minimum standards.

• 26 Nov 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  I can assure you of that, do not worry. Alex Hall-Chen: I echo Jane’s point about there being quite significant support in the business community for parts of the Bill. A good example is fire and rehire: two thirds of IOD members agreed with the principle of outlawing fire and rehire. Where we have concerns is, as others have said, around not only proportionality but the detail. On fire and rehire, for instance, there is concern that it will make any changes to contracts, whether or not they are actually net positive for both the employee and the employer, much more difficult to achieve.

• 26 Nov 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q Thank you. I have a specific question for Cathryn, and the other two witnesses could also respond to it. First, though, I should say that the right to disconnect is not in the Bill. Cathryn, you spoke about surveys with your managers and about the strong support for the Bill, and you said that there is nothing in the proposals that should alarm a responsible business. Given what you also said about the pace of implementation and the need to continue dialogue, if we get that right, would you still say there is nothing in the proposals that should alarm a responsible employer? Cathryn Moses-Stone: First, the right to disconnect was just a useful example of the sort of concerns we hear. We are not saying there is nothing for businesses to be alarmed about. One of the challenges that managers and leaders face is implementing and managing change across their organisations, and that is a complex thing. That comes back to our point that we have a whole suite of data on the impact that highly skilled managers have on managing change in their organisations, and the knock-on impact that has on recruitment, retention, productivity and the success of a business. It does not mean it is easy and straightforward; I do not think many things that managers and leaders do are easy and straightforward. Again, it comes back to the core principle of having the right amount of time and being able to support managers to skill up. That at least gives them the tools to be able to tackle these complicated things head on, because they will be complicated. Ben Willmott: I absolutely agree that there is a significant role for well-designed, effectively enforced employment regulation to support overall improvement in employment standards and to support efforts to improve employee engagement and productivity. The key is that it has to be well-designed regulation. If it is excessive or too complex to implement on the ground, it will lead to increased costs, and that will undermine the ability of businesses to improve job quality, invest in recruitment and skills, and support technology adoption and things that will drive productivity. That is why, as we move forward, the consultation is so important. An example of a measure in the Bill is around the reference period for workers to have the right to guaranteed hours. It is not set out in the Bill, but in “Next Steps” it is set at 12 weeks. In our view it is crucial that there should be consultation on the 12-week reference period. The Government have set out their principles for a modern industrial relations framework: accountability, proportionality, collaboration and balancing the interests of business and workers. Those principles need to apply as we roll out and implement the proposals, so 12 weeks is a test that should be subject to consultation, because it is so important to the functioning of that right. That is the sort of thing where we want to see consultation—where it would help to decide that the ultimate regulation is effectively designed and can work.

• 26 Nov 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q I have some questions for Mr Hale. Previously, the Federation of Small Businesses supported the removal of the lower earnings limit for statutory sick pay, which is in the Bill. Do you support that today? David Hale: To go back to the previous question, what I hope you will support is the introduction of a statutory sick pay rebate in the Bill. We have always been very clear that a rebate is important with any changes that increase SSP costs, because if you do not have a rebate, you systematically disadvantage the firms that take on people who are sick or likely to get sick, and those firms are already not supported enough by Government policy. If you want to make changes to statutory sick pay, as the Bill proposes, you should put in a statutory sick pay rebate to cater for the risk to small firms. Say a firm has six staff members and two are off at the same time, that is 33% of the workforce. It would be very useful if the Government stepped up and actually supported firms that are taking on the people they are talking about. So it is a question more for you than for me: will the Bill include a rebate or not?

• 20 Nov 2024 · Draft Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 (Amendment of Schedule A2) Order 2024 · Hansard source

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  I welcome the Opposition spokesperson, the hon. Member for Mid Buckinghamshire, to his place. I fear we will be seeing a lot more of each other. No doubt we can pick up some of the wider points he made during our consideration of the Employment Rights Bill, which we will be debating over a number of weeks. In response to the hon. Gentleman’s critique, I gently point out to him that this is a significant step forward. However, as my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough and Thornaby East said, even the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service, when asked to respond to the measure, said that it might not always present a significant deterrent when calculated against the financial costs and risks of an alternative approach. So even ACAS, whose job it is to reduce employment disputes, does not believe that it goes far enough. The Government are clear that we do not believe it goes far enough, which is why we are consulting on measures such as removing or doubling the cap for protective awards, and possibly introducing interim relief. All Members are invited to respond to the ongoing open consultation. I am pleased that we have agreement across the board about the measure. It is a small step forward—an interim step—but it is not the final destination. The Government are clear that we want to ensure that the likes of what happened at P&O can never happen again. I commend the measure to the House. Question put and agreed to.

• 20 Nov 2024 · Draft Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 (Amendment of Schedule A2) Order 2024 · Hansard source

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  I beg to move, That the Committee has considered the draft Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 (Amendment of Schedule A2) Order 2024. It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Mundell. This order was laid in draft before the House on 17 October 2024. I start by referring to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. This straightforward instrument relates to protective awards, which can be made by an employment tribunal when an employer does not meet its collective consultation obligations. Those obligations currently apply when an employer is proposing to dismiss 20 or more employees within any 90-day period at a single establishment. Schedule A2 to the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 sets out the list of claims for which an employment tribunal can make a 25% adjustment to compensation if one of the parties has unreasonably failed to comply with a relevant code of practice. Collective consultation requirements apply, among other things, to dismissal and re-engagement scenarios involving 20 or more employees. The code of practice on dismissal and re-engagement will be a relevant code of practice in such cases. The change will mean that when an employment tribunal is making a protective award in a case where the code applies, and it appears to the tribunal that the employer has unreasonably failed to comply with the code, the tribunal may increase that award by up to 25%, increasing the deterrent effect of the code. In other words, if an employer dismisses and re-engages employees but does not meet its collective consultation obligations and unreasonably fails to comply with the code, it will be liable for a greater payout. The order will therefore give the tribunal greater discretion to take individual behaviours into account when making an award. It will add a key potential claim in dismissal and re-engagement scenarios to the list of awards that can attract a 25% adjustment for non-compliance with the code. As Committee members may be aware, a version of this order was debated and approved in the House earlier this year; however, because the election was called and Parliament was dissolved, it was not debated in the other place. That is why we are here debating it again. If the order is approved in both Houses, it will come into force in January 2025. The Government are committed to going much further than is set out in the code. We have brought forward the Employment Rights Bill within our first 100 days of government, as we promised; that will end the unscrupulous fire and rehire practices that we believe have no place in a modern employment market. In the meantime, before the Bill completes its passage and comes into force, we have decided to continue with the previous Government’s code of practice, which came into force earlier in the summer. Although we recognise that it is inadequate on its own, it does offer some additional protections to working people. The code sets out employers’ responsibilities when seeking to change contractual terms and conditions of employment. As I said, the order will mean that there could be a 25% uplift in the award if an employer has unreasonably failed to comply with the code. But we will go further by ending the unscrupulous use of fire and rehire. We are consulting on reforming the law to provide effective remedies against abuse and will replace the statutory code with a strengthened code of practice. We have launched a consultation to gain views on increasing the cap on the protective award for scenarios where employers have not complied with collective redundancy rules; and on adding interim relief to collective redundancy and fire and rehire scenarios. Increasing the protective award would mean that the small proportion of companies that flout existing rules could end up paying significantly more per employee. The consultation also seeks views on whether interim relief should be available to employees who bring claims for unfair dismissal in fire and rehire scenarios and for breaches of collective consultation requirements. I will not say any more about this straightforward regulation. I conclude by highlighting the Government’s ambitions on the “Make Work Pay” plan, which sets out an ambitious agenda that will strengthen the rights of workers, address the fragmented labour market and support workers in balancing responsibilities outside work. In so doing, “Make Work Pay” will help people stay in work, make work more secure and family-friendly, and improve living standards, putting more money in working people’s pockets.

• 12 Nov 2024 · Pubs Code: Guest Beers · Hansard source

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  I will go on to some of the very positive things that were announced in the Budget to help breweries and small businesses in particular. There are about 154,000 businesses in the hospitality sector, generating revenues of around £52 billion per annum. They create vibrancy in communities, support wider social objectives, provide accessible jobs, support community cohesion, and provide welcoming spaces for those who feel isolated and want to enjoy the company of others. It is an important fact that over 80% of the beer consumed in the UK is brewed here—not in the Palace of Westminster, but in the UK—while UK brewers also export over 1 billion pints of beer annually to over 100 countries, according to the British Beer and Pub Association.

• 12 Nov 2024 · Pubs Code: Guest Beers · Hansard source

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  I absolutely do thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. He has obviously heard that I am quite easily tempted into Strangers. It is a very important part of the facilities that the Strangers Bar offers Members the opportunity to serve guest beers. It is a great opportunity to plug great local businesses. Small independent brewers often reflect their local area in their products, from locally sourced ingredients to their marketing, branding and style. The resurgence in brewing in the UK over the last decade has strengthened awareness among the general public of local beers, whether it is the new-style craft beers or independent breweries resurrecting well-loved local beers that had been lost in the consolidation of larger breweries.

• 12 Nov 2024 · Pubs Code: Guest Beers · Hansard source

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  I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. That is a really important point. It is an essential part of our culture and a real selling point for us around the world. When people come here, they want to visit a traditional English or British pub, and we have a different style in every part of the country. The point made earlier by my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle about some of the larger breweries now mimicking the local brands is an interesting development, which shows that imitation is the best form of flattery. More generally, we know there are challenges for the hospitality sector, which is still struggling to recover from the pandemic. The subsequent cost of living crisis has compounded the challenge for pubs, increasing costs and the ability of businesses to repay debts. This is an ongoing struggle. Our system of business rates is particularly unfair on high street businesses. It disincentivises investment, creates uncertainty and places an undue burden on our high streets. That is why the Government are undertaking a review of the business rates system, to ensure that all businesses are paying their fair share, recognising and addressing the fact that high street businesses, including pubs, have shouldered the majority of the burden for far too long. In her Budget, the Chancellor announced that the Government are freezing the small businesses multiplier for 2025-26 to protect small properties from inflationary bill increases, and that retail, hospitality and leisure businesses will receive 40% relief worth up to £110,000 per business. This support package alone is worth over £2.2 billion over five years. It was also announced in the Budget that the Government would reduce the alcohol duty on draft products. This will reduce businesses’ total duty bill by up to £100 million a year and increase the duty differential between draft and non-draft products from 9.2% to 13.9%, so that a pint in the pub attracts less duty than the beer in the supermarket. The Government will also increase the cash discount provided to small brewers and producers for non-draught products and maintain the current cash discount provided to small producers for draught products. This in effect increases the relative value of small producer relief for both draught and non-draught products. Jobs, too, lie at the heart of our plans, backed by the Employment Rights Bill, which had its Second Reading earlier this month, and local growth plans will be a cornerstone of the place-based approach. We have heard already about the importance of pubs in the local economy. Turning more specifically to the guest beers consultation announced in the Budget, the Chancellor said that the Government will consult on ways to ensure that small brewers can retain and expand their access to UK pubs and maximise drinkers’ choices, including through provisions to enable more guest beers. At this point, let me echo the support for the work done by the Society of Independent Brewers and Associates and the Campaign for Real Ale in championing beer drinkers’ choice and pursuing the case for more independently produced beer in pubs. We will work closely with both those organisations, but also with the wider hospitality sector, to identify barriers to market access for small brewers and how they might be addressed. I want to ensure that we have a clear understanding of the current position, and of what interventions may be necessary and the impact of those interventions. We want to find the right solutions to help small brewers gain access to the market, but to do that we will need to understand all the issues and ensure that any interventions are proportionate, that they address the problems, and that they do not result in unintended consequences. For instance, we will want to develop a good understanding of the extent to which tied tenants use existing flexibilities, by, for example, buying beer from small brewers through their pub companies on payment of a tied release fee. We will want to understand whether managed and retail pub chains could or do offer local beers, to understand the scope for increasing the provision of local beers in other licensed premises such as restaurants and hotels; and to understand the barriers preventing local brewers from gaining access to more pubs, and the reasons for those barriers. There are a range of issues that we will want to consider as part of the consultation. I can respond to my hon. Friend’s questions about what we would consider by saying that we are ruling nothing out at this stage, and that we intend to take a holistic view of the sector. The next statutory review of the pubs code is due to take place next year, but it is only one part of the picture, as it applies to only about a fifth of all pubs in England and Wales. As has been mentioned, there is to be an interesting development in Scotland, whose pubs code will include a guest beer provision. That does not necessarily mean that the provision will automatically be transported to England and Wales, but it also does not mean that we would not be interested to see how it pans out—although, as it will not be introduced until March 2025 at the earliest, we will need a bit of time to understand how it works. We will be able to consider that as part of the consultation, and we will, of course, consult formally on all the options available to us to increase small brewers’ access to the market. It is important for us to get a handle on the complexities of the market before we undertake the consultation. We will work with SIBA and CAMRA and will engage with a range of stakeholders in the pubs and wider hospitality sectors before consulting on options. In response to the questions about when this will happen, I can say that we will try to get on with it as soon as we can, but we do want to undertake that work before launching the formal consultation. We understand the points that have been made and the good intentions behind the suggestions that we have heard, but we want to ensure that this works for the industry as a whole. Let me end by thanking my hon. Friend for initiating her first Adjournment debate. I look forward to working with her on these issues in the coming months, and I will certainly be taking up her offer of a drink—although, owing to diary constraints, I will probably do so on premises closer to the Chamber than to her constituency. Question put and agreed to.

• 12 Nov 2024 · Pubs Code: Guest Beers · Hansard source

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  May I start by extending my own congratulations? I also congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle (Ms Minns) on securing this debate and on a very engaging and well-informed speech. It took us through an interesting period in her constituency’s history. I was unaware of the nationalisation of pubs in Carlisle. If that is a suggestion that she wishes to put forward for our next manifesto, she will be aware of the policy-making processes and how to do that. Unfortunately, at this stage I cannot confirm that we have any plans to nationalise pubs—that probably will not come as a surprise to anyone. Before I go on to address my hon. Friend’s points, I will say a little more about the industry more generally, because it plays a critical role in supporting local communities in every corner of the UK. The interest that we have had in this debate shows how important pubs are. They are not just any other local business; they are a part of our history, culture and heritage, and they are a huge employer. The wider hospitality sector employs around 2.2 million people.

• 12 Nov 2024 · Draft Radio Equipment (Amendment) (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2024 · Hansard source

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  I beg to move, That the Committee has considered the draft Radio Equipment (Amendment) (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2024. It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Betts. The draft regulations, which were laid before the House on 9 October, will implement common charger measures in Northern Ireland. In particular, USB-C will become the common charging point for a range of portable electrical devices that require wired charging. The instrument is expected to have limited impact in practice. Many manufacturers have already moved to USB-C to continue to supply the European Union market and, as a result, USB-C has effectively become the industry default in Europe—I am sure Members are at this moment looking at their chargers and phones to see whether they have already moved to USB-C. Industry tells us that it is using USB-C for the whole of the UK to avoid supply chain complexity. Devices that comply with common charger requirements will also be able to be legally placed on the GB market, so we consider it highly likely that the same devices will be available across the whole UK. The common charger measures aim to reduce environmental waste, increase consumer convenience and save money for consumers, as they will not need to buy separate chargers for each device. We consider that it could help businesses and deliver consumer and environmental benefits, if we were to introduce a similar standardised requirement across the UK. Accordingly, we have launched a call for evidence on that issue. The implementation of common charger measures in Northern Ireland also ensures our compliance with international law, which facilitates Northern Ireland’s continued unique dual access to the UK internal market and the EU single market. I will set out a bit of the background. The radio equipment directive 2014 established a framework of regulatory requirements for specific categories of electrical and electronic equipment that is placed on the EU market or put into service in the EU. When we were in the EU, the UK’s Radio Equipment Regulations 2017 implemented that directive into domestic law on a UK-wide basis. In November 2022, the EU formally adopted the common charger directive, which amended the radio equipment directive. The EU common charger directive requires, among other things, a common charging solution based on USB-C for smartphones and certain other portable electronic devices—there is a full list in the regulations—that use wired charging. That will be implemented from December 2024 and for laptops from April 2026. To provide for its continued unique dual access to the UK internal market and the EU single market, certain EU legislation continues to apply in Northern Ireland under the terms of the Windsor framework, including the EU radio equipment directive. The instrument will therefore amend the 2017 regulations to implement the latest changes in Northern Ireland, enabling them to be legally enforced. This instrument introduces new regulatory requirements for specific categories of electrical and electronic equipment that use wired charging and are placed on the Northern Ireland market. It amends the 2017 regulations to provide for simplification, whereby USB-C will be the common charging port, meaning that one charger will work for multiple devices, bringing cost savings and environmental benefits. The instrument will standardise fast charging technology, meaning that the charging speed is the same when using any compatible charger for a device. The instrument will also introduce the unbundling of the sale of a charger, meaning that consumers will have the option, when purchasing a new device, of whether to buy a charger alongside it. That will hopefully reduce electronic waste and costs for the consumer. There will also be additional visual and written information about charging characteristics, the power that the device requires and whether it supports fast charging, thereby improving the information available to consumers. That will help consumers to understand whether their existing chargers meet the requirements of new devices and help consumers to select compatible chargers. The common charger measures will apply to certain categories of handheld devices, including smartphones that use wired charging from 28 December this year and to laptops from 28 April 2026. Offences will be amended to cover the common charger requirements that I mentioned, including to ensure that consumers are offered the choice of purchasing specific categories of electrical and electronic equipment without a charging device if they wish, and that equipment is accompanied by visual information showing whether a charging device is included. I assure hon. Members that enforcement authorities will continue to take a proportionate approach to compliance and enforcement activities in accordance with the regulator’s code. In almost all cases, we expect that by working with and supporting businesses, compliance will be achieved without the need for recourse to criminal penalties. The Northern Ireland Department of Justice has confirmed that it considers that the offences provided for by the instrument are consistent and proportionate and will not have any negative impact on the criminal justice system in Northern Ireland. Officials in the Office for Product Safety and Standards will provide industry guidance to ensure that businesses have all the information they need on how to comply with the new requirements, and they will liaise with Northern Ireland district councils, which are responsible for enforcing the radio equipment regulations in Northern Ireland, ensuring that they have all the necessary information to do that. With USB-C charging effectively becoming the industry default, my view is that this measure could help UK businesses, if we provide regulatory certainty, and that consumer and environmental benefits could be delivered by introducing similar requirements across the whole of the UK, which is why we have launched the call for evidence. We expect the instrument to bring consumer and environmental benefits to Northern Ireland. It also ensures our compliance with international law in relation to Northern Ireland’s continuing dual access. I commend the draft regulations to the Committee.

• 12 Nov 2024 · Draft Radio Equipment (Amendment) (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2024 · Hansard source

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  First of all, I welcome the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for West Worcestershire, to her place, and I hope that we can work constructively across the Chamber. I welcome the comments that she made in support of the draft regulations. She made an important reference to our drawers and how many different chargers we all have in them. We can all see on a personal level why this change might well be a good thing for all consumers. I assure her that we are acting independently of the European Union, and are not blindly following its diktat. We are in the middle of a call for evidence on this subject, and the industry response has been that this was a direction in which it was travelling anyway. I assure her that we will consider all responses before we make a final decision. The hon. and learned Member for North Antrim made an impassioned speech mainly on constitutional issues and the application of the Windsor framework, which is the legal remit within which we are discussing the regulations. He said that he was not particularly concerned about the subject matter. I do not know whether he has had any constituents raise the issue with him, but I can assure him that we have worked closely with the relevant officials in Northern Ireland, and indeed, to pick up on the contribution from the hon. Member for South Antrim, local authorities in Northern Ireland on the application of the regulations. The impact assessment from the EU indicated that this would have a de minimis effect on the market, as the industry had already moved towards it. That has been echoed in the conversations that we have had, so an impact assessment would not have revealed anything that would be of significance today. Question put and agreed to.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Sectoral Collective Bargaining · Hansard source

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  If the shadow Minister is complaining about the state of the adult social care sector, he should look to his own party and how the sector was left to rot for 14 years. The impact assessment says that the overall cost to employers will be 0.4% overall and, as the economic analysis says, the make work pay package will help to raise living standards across the country and create opportunities for all. I think 0.4% is a fantastic achievement to get such a deal. If he does not want to support improved working conditions for people, an end to fire and rehire and better maternity protections, he should continue to vote against the Employment Rights Bill, but I do not think his constituents will thank him for that.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Sectoral Collective Bargaining · Hansard source

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  My hon. Friend is right to say that there is plenty of evidence worldwide that collective bargaining improves terms and conditions and the overall vitality of the economy, but we must start somewhere. About 5% of the entire working population are employed in adult social care, and with a 25% turnover rate and rampant abuse of zero-hours contracts and the minimum wage laws, we felt that that sector needed the most attention first. We must make a concerted effort to drive up working conditions, because those who work in that area have been undervalued and underappreciated for far too long, and that has to change. We must focus on getting it right in adult social care, and we will see where that takes us.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Sectoral Collective Bargaining · Hansard source

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  I have to educate the hon. Member on what trade unions do. ASLEF is not a union in the adult social care sector, which is what we are talking about here. We want to work on a tripartite basis—business and workers, together with the Government—to get terms and conditions right. Given that we had the lowest increase in living standards on record under the Conservative Government, I would have thought that he would want to support that too.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Sectoral Collective Bargaining · Hansard source

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  The Government are committed to strengthening the collective voices of workers and restoring the principle that work should always pay. That is why we introduced the Employment Rights Bill, which will restore the school support staff negotiating body and introduce a framework for a fair pay agreement in adult social care. Combined with other measures in the Bill, that will empower workers, unions and employers to come together to negotiate fair pay, terms and conditions.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Make Work Pay Programme · Hansard source

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  I find it incredible that the Opposition quote French-style labour laws, because when they introduced the minimum services legislation, they always held up France as the example of where that works already. I wish they would make their minds up. The implication behind the question about trade union funding says rather more about their attitude to how legislation is made in this country than ours. We do things because we believe in them. If he looks carefully at what the OBR is saying, £1,400 into people’s pockets as a result of the national living wage increase is a fantastic achievement that we should all be proud of.