Carla Denyer MP: speeches

Speeches

• 31 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (Sixth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Clause 57 ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 58 Abandoned premises under assured shorthold tenancies Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (Sixth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I beg to move amendment 44, in clause 57, page 79, line 31, after “section 1” insert— “— in subsection (4)(a), omit ‘the prescribed sum’ and insert ‘£60,000’; (b)”. This amendment increases the maximum fine for illegal evictions under the Protection from Eviction Act 1977 to £60,000.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (Sixth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I am sure we are all aware of the risk that the abolition of section 21 may lead to a rise in illegal evictions. The Renters’ Rights Bill needs measures to protect against that, and that is the purpose of amendment 44. Across the country, a segment of private landlords evade the courts and attempt to evict tenants themselves by taking actions that include changing locks, disposing of belongings, and even cutting off electricity and water supply and harassing tenants. Many illegal evictions take place in the shadow market, where landlords and letting agents deliberately breach the law to maximise rental profits. Many renters in the shadow market are on lower incomes in marginal employment, and they are unfamiliar with their rights. In 2019, there were just 30 prosecutions of offences under the Protection from Eviction Act 1977 in the whole of England and Wales. Such a low prosecution rate allows criminal landlords to act with impunity. When sentencing, magistrates are also very lenient; fines of less than £1,000, community service and conditional discharge are common penalties for such behaviour. If the maximum fine is £40,000—as it currently is in the Bill—because of the nature of civil penalty notices, it is unlikely that the fine will ever reach that maximum unless the offence is particularly violent. So—and here is the rub—landlords may still take a calculated risk that they can save money by unlawfully evicting tenants, given the abolition of section 21. Even where illegal eviction is not violent, it is still a horrific crime, so it is appropriate that fines reflect that. I therefore propose a maximum fine of £60,000, to give space for appropriate fines to reflect the criminality and harm caused within that range. The change would help to ensure that, for rogue landlords, illegal eviction is not the path of least resistance, as I fear it could otherwise be. Increasing the maximum will also give a strong indication to the courts that this is not just a technical breach, and that will hopefully therefore have a knock-on effect on sentences issued upon conviction. These cases are particularly complicated and expensive for councils to pursue, and that brings us back to the point about the cost to councils that we discussed earlier, especially where landlords refer a case to the first-tier tribunal. If local authorities are bound to lose money even when they win the case, they will be hesitant to begin proceedings. Increasing the maximum fine will help them to have more confidence that they will not lose a substantial amount of money. That is particularly important in the context of 14 years of council funding cuts, as we all know, which mean that if councils stand to lose a lot, they are disincentivised to act.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I am seconds away from finishing my point, so I will give way shortly. My amendments 78 and 79 are designed to ensure that the ambition to eradicate discrimination in the private rented sector is realised, by giving tenants incentives to take the step of reporting and aiding investigations. I ask the Minister to consider that because, to put it bluntly, I am not sure that a public information campaign from councils will incentivise tenants as he suggested.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I thank the hon. Lady for her question, which I will come to in a moment. I have considered the role of the ombudsman, but the point of amendment 78 is predominantly to incentivise tenants to engage with the enforcement of the local housing authority. Given the seriousness and scale of discrimination, bold measures are required. Though I welcome the Bill’s intention to stamp out discrimination, the reforms will only be as effective as the enforcement that underpins them. Under the legislation, local authorities will remain dependent on prospective tenants reporting a breach in the first instance. Let us bear in mind that we are discussing discrimination before somebody becomes a tenant—it is discrimination in the advertising of a property—so the prospective tenant may well not have an incentive for pursuing it. Local authorities will be dependent on tenants reporting the breach in the first instance, maintaining a potentially lengthy co-operation with the local authority and assisting the inquiry all the way to its conclusion. That is a real burden. A tenant who has been refused a tenancy will likely still be contending with the extremely pressing issue of where they are going to live—they may have just been served an eviction notice or they may have had to move out of their accommodation quickly for another reason. They are unlikely to have the time or energy to volunteer their services for free to the local authority in exchange for no benefit. I want to address a point that the Minister made against the amendment. In the circumstances I mentioned, the chance of tenants falsely or speculatively submitting a complaint is pretty slim, because they will have pressures on their time. If the prospective tenant were to get a cut of the amount received by the local housing authority, that would be a good incentive for them to report discrimination to the local authority, and discriminatory landlords would begin to be rooted out.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I have not myself done the calculations and consultations on what that might take a local authority. However, the amendment is based on evidence provided by experts in the evidence gathering part of the Committee’s work. I am trying to get the written evidence up on my parliamentary laptop, which is not co-operating. Off the top of my head, I believe it was from Shelter—I will try to look in a moment, when I have sat down. I am sure Shelter has done the work, so I would be pleased to get back to the Minister on the details when I can lay my hands on them. Apologies, but I have forgotten the second thing the Minister said.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source

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  Can I get to my next point? I suspect that I am about to answer the Minister’s question.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I will quickly clarify the comments made about my amendment 78 by the shadow Minister, and then I will discuss my amendment and answer some of the Minister’s points. If I heard correctly, the shadow Minister said that he did not support the amendment because it mixes up compensation with criminal penalties, but my understanding of the conversation that we have just had is that the clause uses civil law rather than criminal law, so that point does not stand—or have I misunderstood something?

• 31 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source

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  A number of the organisations that gave evidence suggested something along those lines, and they had looked into the viability of both mechanisms existing in parallel. I do not have the exact chapter and verse of what they said in my head; we can look at that in Hansard .

• 31 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source

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  Will the Minister give way?

• 31 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source

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  In that case, I am pleased to confirm that I have anticipated those questions and concerns, and I can answer them now. Amendments 78 and 79 provide a mechanism for the complainant—the tenant, or the prospective tenant in this case—to receive a portion of the financial penalty imposed by a local housing authority as compensation for being discriminated against. First, let me give a little context. As the Committee has heard in oral and written evidence, discrimination is rife in our private rented sector, and the Bill has the potential to deliver real change for those who find themselves wrongly and consistently locked out of housing. A YouGov survey from last year shows that 52% of landlords harbour a preference against tenants who are in receipt of benefits, and the English housing survey 2021 to 2022 found that one in 10 private renters said they had been refused a tenancy in the past 12 months because they received benefits. That shows the scale of the problem. Families with children also face serious discrimination. There are 1.4 million families in the private rented sector with dependent children, and we have already discussed the harmful effect that it can have on them.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I have a few follow-up questions for the Minister based on what he just said. First, does he recognise that 20% of double the amount still leaves a significant increase for the local authority? He was talking about the local authority receiving a reduced amount, but losing 20% of double the amount still means a larger amount than previously.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I will follow up with the Minister on the details.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I will plough on, because I was indeed going to come to that issue. First, however, I will address one of the Minister’s other points on the convergence of penalty and compensation principles. I understand his purpose in pointing out that these are not normally combined, but there is a precedent. Sharing the proceeds of a civil penalty between public bodies and the person on the end of the wrongdoing is a departure from the norm but, as I understand it, under section 214 of the Housing Act 2004, if a landlord has failed to comply with the tenancy deposit protection regulations, a court can award a tenant a sum of between one and three times the deposit they paid. While there is no question in that legislation of sharing an award with the local authority, it is nevertheless an example of the convergence of penalty and compensation principles in a single move. Although deposit protection rules do not give us a blueprint for the proposal I put forward in amendments 78 and 79, they demonstrate that an acknowledgment elsewhere in housing law of the importance, proportionality and justification of restitution for tenants, which also serves as a form of deterrent and admonition for rule breaking, all in one go. The Minister may be aware that I tabled an amendment to increase civil penalties for exactly the reason that he has highlighted: if the local authority is to share the proceeds with the tenant, the total amount should be higher to ensure that it covers the cost of the local authority taking on the enforcement. That amendment was not selected for debate, so I will not shoehorn in my comments on the subject, but since the Minister specifically asked me about it, I will make the case for increasing the total civil penalty. I proposed that it be increased to £15,000 so as to not harm the local authority’s ability to undertake enforcement activity, as well as to properly reflect the time and expertise involved in the local authority pursuing such cases. I think that addresses the concerns the Minister raised. In conclusion, the tenant is the linchpin upon which a discrimination case such as this depends. On that basis, I believe that some form of financial compensation for the person on the end of the illegal treatment is fair and proportionate. They can pursue a case with the housing ombudsman case as well, and there is an argument for taking into account whether the tenant has received something through the housing ombudsman in determining what they receive in my proposed scheme, or vice versa, but the function of the two tools is different.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source

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  My next point relates, so the Minister can probably address them together. Secondly, the Minister said there were good reasons why he had selected £7,000 specifically and not a few thousand above or below that. Will he expand on why £7,000 is the magic number? Thirdly, I would like to understand the Minister’s view on how tenants will be incentivised to have the prolonged engagement with a local authority that would be necessary to see the process through to conclusion—with only a public information campaign?

• 31 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source

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  Yes, I remember now that the Minister asked whether I expected the tenants to investigate. I do not expect the tenants themselves to investigate, but I expect that a level of ongoing engagement will be required, which would be onerous if they are trying to flat or house-hunt and move house at the same time. My experience as a councillor for nine years, and as an active citizen, is that it often requires several successive engagements with a local authority to get the desired outcome.

• 30 Oct 2024 · Engagements · Hansard source

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  The ICJ has mandated that Israel must ensure access to lifesaving aid in Gaza under article 2 of the genocide convention, yet the Israeli Government have voted to effectively block its delivery. As a human rights lawyer, does the Prime Minister agree that banning UNRWA is a breach of international law? How much more evidence does he need before he calls out what is happening as genocide and acts in line with the UK’s responsibilities as a signatory to the genocide convention?

• 29 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  I thank the Minister for his response. I, too, have spent a lot of time reflecting on the potential effects of the amendment, including thinking about potential edge cases, exactly as he described. Imagine someone who became an unintentional landlord, perhaps because after buying their home, they got seconded to another country for work for a year or two. While I recognise that it might be inconvenient for a landlord to have a two-year limit, it is also inconvenient for a tenant to have instability of tenure. If someone is, for example, seconded to work abroad for a year or two, with a fixed date of return to be back in their own property, they have to consider their responsibility to provide stable housing for their tenants. If they are not able to do that for a long enough time for the tenant not to be subjected to undue costs and effects on their health, stability, education and so on, maybe the landlord needs to look into short-term lets, rather than creating a situation where somebody believes they are making a permanent home. Say that person was going abroad for a year and a half, and the limit is two years—they might have to find somewhere else to live for a few months before moving back in. Yes, that would be an inconvenience, but we have to weigh that against the huge inconvenience for tenants who have their only home constantly disrupted and moved around. I ask the Minister to look at this again, and to think about the edge cases, as well as where the greatest inconvenience and injustice really lies between the landlord and the tenant. I would be happy to have a chat with him. I will not press the amendment to a vote this morning.

• 29 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

• 29 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  I would like to speak in favour of the amendment and to bring the Minister’s attention to the evidence we received from experts, which highlighted the fact that discretionary grounds do not make it impossible for the court to award possession. In fact, in many cases, especially ones involving antisocial behaviour, it is reasonable to assume that the courts would apply a high threshold for where to exercise discretion. Nevertheless, that does not negate the principle that there may be extremely exceptional circumstances in which discretion is needed. The Government completely tying the hands of the courts so that they are unable to consider those extenuating circumstances is counterproductive.

• 29 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  Would the hon. Gentleman be able to speak slightly louder? It is difficult to hear down here.

• 29 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  The Bill rightly seeks to address the fact that tenants do not have security in their homes. Amendments 42 and 43 would amend schedule 1 to lengthen the proposed period of protection against eviction under grounds 1 and 1A from one year to two years. This would be just one measure to start to address insecurity of tenure. It is worth recalling that the King’s Speech background briefing notes explain that one of the primary aims of the Bill is to increase tenant security and stability. Private renting does not have to be insecure. The median length of tenancy in the UK is just under three years, while the average in Germany is 11 years. Insecurity erodes renters’ sense of belonging, and constant moving has a heavy financial cost. For children who are in privately rented homes—the Minister pointed out that they make up an increasing proportion of private renters—this insecurity takes a wider toll. Each school move at a non-standard time of year reduces expected GCSE grades by 0.5. Shelter has found that 13% of tenants with children in their household said that their last house move was stressful or upsetting for their child. The Committee will no doubt be aware that constant moving is a major problem for private renters. Research by Shelter in 2022 found that a quarter of all private renters had lived in three or more privately rented homes in the previous five years—three different homes in five years. Amendments 42 and 43 are part of an effort to urgently change the renting culture and our ideas about what is acceptable when a property is rented out as someone’s home. I hope the Minister will look at them, not least because a central aim of the Bill is about addressing the deep unfairness of private tenant insecurity. That unfairness is a massive problem in my constituency of Bristol Central, where a huge 47% of households are in the private rented sector. It affects many people. To give just two examples, a constituent I spoke to had to move six times in six years, and another constituent literally received her notice as she was moving her possessions into her new flat. That is unacceptable. Security is vital to allow renters to put down roots in their community and plan for the future. It is clear from the evidence gathered by the Renters’ Reform Coalition that the vast majority of tenants want security and the power to decide when to move on. They do not want the anxiety, discomfort and expense of being forced to move by a distorted, malfunctioning market. Unwanted, unexpected home moves are stressful and costly. Generation Rent estimated in its evidence that an unwanted move costs a typical two-adult renting household more than £2,000. Almost half of renters have no savings at all. Moving frequently or a short period of time after the previous move impacts tenants’ financial resilience. For many, those costs are prohibitive and will push them into homelessness, not least because finding somewhere new can often prove impossible or mean accepting dangerous, substandard accommodation. To give one example among many from my constituents, after months of searching with no luck, a constituent and her partner had to settle for a grim place with an “unshakeable smell of damp” that made almost everything she owned “fuzzy with mould”. Competition for properties in the private rented sector is fierce. Tenants often have little time in which to find a new home and little power to influence the terms of their tenancy agreements. They often sign 12 or six-month contracts under the current regime simply because that is the only option available to them, not because they actively prefer to be protected for only one year. Many tenants would prefer long-term security in their home. The proposed two-year protected period in amendment 42, coupled with rolling tenancies, would allow tenants a combination of flexibility and security. We should reflect that the two-year protected period I am proposing is not radical or new—far from it. It was what was initially proposed in the former Conservative Government’s 2019 consultation, “A new deal for renting”, to ensure that security of tenure for tenants would not be undermined once fixed-term tenancies come to an end. However, when legislation was eventually brought forward, that Government watered down the protected period to just six months. The current Minister, then a shadow Minister, rightly supported a two-year protected period with regards to grounds 1 and 1A in the Renters (Reform) Bill Committee. As well understanding its history, it is important to reflect on the fact that a longer protected period has the potential to drive professionalism in the sector. As ever, good landlords have nothing to fear from this provision. A two-year measure of security at the beginning of a tenancy is needed to create a disincentive for any abuse of the exemptions to no-fault eviction, and it would be a triple win: better for renters, for the local communities they move into, and for homelessness reduction. The Renters’ Rights Bill is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to set out clear principles for the roles of both landlord and tenant and to develop a regulatory regime that reflects and incentivises that vision. While some landlords will have to make changes to their business plans, a two-year protected period should not amount to a significant change for many landlords or interfere with their business model. In the Renters (Reform) Bill Committee, when speaking to his amendment to create a two-year protected period, the hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich rightly said: “We believe that any landlord likely to use ground 1 or 1A in good faith will have some prior awareness that they or a family member may need the property for use at some point in the coming years, or that they may wish to sell it in the near future.” –– [ Official Report, Renters (Reform) Public Bill Committee, 21 November 2023; c. 173.] Buy-to-let mortgages are often made available at fixed rates for two years or longer and, currently, the average tenancy in the private rented sector is longer than two years. This should not be overly disruptive, and it can provide much-needed stability for those in most need of it. To conclude, the change to a two-year protected period would be one of the most important things the Government could implement in the Bill to more fully deliver on their ambition to decisively rebalance renting in favour of renters. The amendment seeks to understand the reasoning behind the proposal for a protected period of one year rather than two years, as was the Minister’s position previously. While 12 months is obviously an improvement on six, we can do better to improve the security of private renting, which has such a big impact on tenants’ health, wellbeing and life choices.

• 29 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  I beg to move amendment 42, in schedule 1, page 155, line 9, leave out “1 year” and insert “2 years”. This amendment would increase the minimum period before a landlord can use certain grounds for possession from 12 months to 2 years.

• 22 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q You will notice that I have a rent-affordability theme, but this is probably my last question on that theme. I am aware that the Renters’ Reform Coalition would like to see a national rental affordability commission that looks into options for rent controls. If we reflect on what a previous panellist said about rent controls being not a single thing but an umbrella term for a wide spectrum of possible interventions, Tom, or Ben if you have anything to add, would you like to expand on how a national rental affordability commission might work to figure out what the best solutions would be? Tom Darling: I think Ben touched on it. The literature shows that different types of rent control have worked best in combination with a bunch of other policy levers, and particularly the supply of social housing. If the Government are continuing to set out that affordability is not the thing they are going to deal with in this Bill, we think it would be sensible to have a national rental affordability commission that could look at all these issues in the round—including all the different policy levers such as local housing allowance, housing benefit, the supply of social housing and different forms of rent controls—to bring down rents relative to wages and make renting more affordable. That feels like a pipe dream at the moment, but it should not be. That should be our aim. If the Government are not going to take forward affordability in this Bill, that sort of commission might be a place where they could look at all the different policy levers which, it should be said, cut across different Departments, and it might be a way to take that forward. Ben Twomey: On that point, the idea of rent regulation being a scary thing is not new, and it is something that is hammed up by the landlord groups. They obviously want to make as much as profit as they can, but they do not have a right to make profit; they have a right to seek it. In this market, it is so broken because, unlike lots of other types of markets, the landlords can just click their fingers and say, “I’m short £100 this month. I’ll get it off my tenant.” A tenant will usually be forced to pay or have no other options unless they want to leave the home or even become homeless. It is a very broken market. We used to have regulation in many ways in the country more than 30 years ago. Things have not got better since then, so the trial we have had of not using these measures has not really worked for people. These are all things that a commission could look at, or on which the Bill could take some quite straightforward measures. Similar to the energy price cap, with which we recognise that energy is essential for our homes, our homes are also essential for our homes. We should probably think about some common-sense solutions to that.

• 22 Oct 2024 · Renters' Rights Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q I have three questions, but they are all yes/no, so you can be as brief as you like. First, do you agree with a previous panellist that the landlord licensing rules need to be loosened so that councils can have more discretion and flexibility to apply, for example, landlord licensing across their whole area rather than just bits of it? Secondly, do you think that the potential penalty of £7,000 that local authorities can apply is sufficient to act as a deterrent? Thirdly, do you think that the Bill goes far enough on housing quality, and especially energy efficiency, given that, as we have heard from previous panellists, homes in the UK are some of the worst in Europe on energy efficiency, and the private rented sector is the worst within that? Richard Blakeway: On licensing, yes. On the deterrent, yes and no. You have to recognise that the penalties have increased in this Bill, and that is important, but I emphasise my point about the scope and whether, for example, non-compliance with ombudsman decisions should be brought into the scope of that. On energy efficiency, obviously there are significant measures in here, but it will be important to see what the decent homes standard—I think it is in clause 98—contains in order to judge what the standard of accommodation will look like in the future.